Bleach Chapter 541 Discussion

Wonderweiss92 said:
Fai said:
Wonderweiss92 said:
Can't imagine that his powers where that rstricted. I mean after his fight with Uluqiorra Unohana said that his reiatsu could rival a captain's. And that time he had just half of it. It would be a little of the charts if Ichigo's reiatsu that time was only a part of his real one. I think that the restriction only took effect on Ichigo's zanpakto abilities. That would explain why he only could use Getsuga Tensho, because he wasn't using his real zanpakto. So maybe now he gets unique zanpakto abilities for shikai and bankai and that is his real power. Any other way would be far to ridiculous.



He already was using them, just limited. WHich actually explains the powerboost in FGT form - "Zangetsu" said "fuck it" and allowed more power to be used.



So we will see something akin to FGT-Ichigo, possibly even stronger since while FGT Ichigo had most likely full access to his power reserve, the quincy part was still split apart.



So you think Ichigo's full fighting power will be like it was in FGT mode? It is possible, but isn't FGT a technique of Zangetsu to become Getsuga Tensho itself and use all of one's reiatsu for it. That would explain why Ichigo was that powerful too, because he always had a very huge amount of reiatsu. And from what we heard from Isshin he is also capable of doing FGT with his sword Engetsu. So how could Ichigo gain a permanent strengt equal to FGT when this techniques power has a big price to pay? Wouldn't that throw over all balance in the story? It is very hard for me to believe that.



Do you think there is a possibility that the fake Zangetsu just blocked Ichigo's real zanpakuto abilities since he changed Ichigo's sword too? So that he will gain fighting other techniques than getsuga tensho. And I could imagine that he will jump at a higher power level because with his real Zanpakuto he should gain total control of his hollow powers. Until the fight with Aizen in FGT mode he used his hollow mask to use White's power even more, but now he shoudl have access to it without problems. That will indeed make him stronger, but i don't think he will gain a power at the level of FGT.



You are thinking of Mugetsu

I am thinking of Ichigo after that training but before he uses mugetsu.

Can't imagine that his powers where that rstricted. I mean after his fight with Uluqiorra Unohana said that his reiatsu could rival a captain's. And that time he had just half of it. It would be a little of the charts if Ichigo's reiatsu that time was only a part of his real one. I think that the restriction only took effect on Ichigo's zanpakto abilities. That would explain why he only could use Getsuga Tensho, because he wasn't using his real zanpakto. So maybe now he gets unique zanpakto abilities for shikai and bankai and that is his real power. Any other way would be far to ridiculous.

hungry_bunny said:
Ichigo won't be over-powered after this.



Juha Bach and his white-haired companion are the ones that are over-powered, they split his bankai in half without even trying. This kind of power-up is a minimum if he's going to fight on equal terms.



With that said, is this enough? Old Zangetsu's reasons for holding Ichigo back are interesting... it's like the inner Juha Bach had the same hatred for shinigami as the real Juha Bach, as if not only Juha Bach's reiatsu was transferred to his descendants, but his memories as well.



And yet again, another small hint that Juha Bach has some control over his descendants. First he robs all the "halflings" of their strength (Ichigo's and Ishida's mothers) and then he manages to "summon" Ichigo... maybe Ishida is being mind-controlled as well. I wonder if Ichigo is capable of even fighting the real Juha Bach...



You are drawing wrong conclusions out of right narrative.



"Juha Zangetsu's" reasoning behind why he was holding Ichigo back made sense - all those personifications are still part of Ichigo's mind and psyche itself, still. So its only normal that ONE side of his personifications would display self-doubt we have seen in ichigo again again - the only question was which.



As for control? Nope. Its more likely a genetic memory thing - Ichigo subconsciously KNEW who Juha Bach was, so he interpreted him as enemy leader of quincies and homed in to him to fight him.  Its not something Bach decided to just do, its something Ichigo did without realizing why.



This does raise a question - will Ichigo slowly gain memories of how the war started, as his quincy powers progress integrating into  his power set? could there be something in them to change his opinion over some things? Could he find out the REAL reason for this war that way?

I thought there's gonna be a fight but oh well whatever

Fai said:
Wonderweiss92 said:
Can't imagine that his powers where that rstricted. I mean after his fight with Uluqiorra Unohana said that his reiatsu could rival a captain's. And that time he had just half of it. It would be a little of the charts if Ichigo's reiatsu that time was only a part of his real one. I think that the restriction only took effect on Ichigo's zanpakto abilities. That would explain why he only could use Getsuga Tensho, because he wasn't using his real zanpakto. So maybe now he gets unique zanpakto abilities for shikai and bankai and that is his real power. Any other way would be far to ridiculous.



He already was using them, just limited. WHich actually explains the powerboost in FGT form - "Zangetsu" said "fuck it" and allowed more power to be used.



So we will see something akin to FGT-Ichigo, possibly even stronger since while FGT Ichigo had most likely full access to his power reserve, the quincy part was still split apart.



So you think Ichigo's full fighting power will be like it was in FGT mode? It is possible, but isn't FGT a technique of Zangetsu to become Getsuga Tensho itself and use all of one's reiatsu for it. That would explain why Ichigo was that powerful too, because he always had a very huge amount of reiatsu. And from what we heard from Isshin he is also capable of doing FGT with his sword Engetsu. So how could Ichigo gain a permanent strengt equal to FGT when this techniques power has a big price to pay? Wouldn't that throw over all balance in the story? It is very hard for me to believe that.



Do you think there is a possibility that the fake Zangetsu just blocked Ichigo's real zanpakuto abilities since he changed Ichigo's sword too? So that he will gain fighting other techniques than getsuga tensho. And I could imagine that he will jump at a higher power level because with his real Zanpakuto he should gain total control of his hollow powers. Until the fight with Aizen in FGT mode he used his hollow mask to use White's power even more, but now he shoudl have access to it without problems. That will indeed make him stronger, but i don't think he will gain a power at the level of FGT.

is that a flame zanpaktou?

Hey people, created an account just for this one post =/. Going by their powers, shouldnt Quincies own every single one of them out there? Hollows, Shinigami, Arrancars, Vizards are all made of spirit particles. Quincies absorb spirit particles. So isn't it like a plothole to show Ishida struggling in SS and HM when all he had to do was activate his spirit particles absorbing ability like that guy who absorbed Allon?



In fact why did the Quincies even bother to fight with their techniques and all?

Oh and Fai, nobody is really disputing the different facets of Ichgios power. I am simply stating where the power and techniques derive from based on bloodline. And I would like to state that I belive myself to be decent at understand metaphors.



Lets relate a human hand to the multiplicity of Ichigo's essence, or dualism if all components of the soul are narrowed into more simplistic natures.



The hand is Ichigo's Soul. A human hand consist of at least a palm and five fingers, or 4 if we don't consider the thumb a finger. If all the fingers are removed from the hand, the hand is still a hand (albeit a five finger discounted hand). But if there is no palm to support the fingers, then there is no hand. The same can be said of Ichigo's Soul. All five attachments of Ichigo's hand represent the multitude of Ichigo's Soul. Hollow (constructed with Shinigami souls) Quincy via the mother's blood, Shinigami via the fathers blood, possibly Fullbring, etc.. Ichigio does have choices. The dualist nature of Ichigo, Zangetsu vs. Old-Man, is represented by an open hand or clinched fist. Both technigues - wether Ichigo chooses face-palm or 'Five Finger Death Punch' (All Rights Reserved) - still use the entire hand. Face-palm or F.F.D.P cannot be effectivly achived without all the fingers and the fingers cannot survive without the palm. Ichigo's soul (or palm of the hand) can survive without all the attachments: Fulbring Arc, however none can survive without Ichigo. Thus, It's Ichigo's soul, not theirs and so Ichigo controls the setting of his inner world.



Now I have just looked through many of the chapters where Ichigo resigned to is inner self and found something that might have helped your case againts me based on your statement is in chapter 411 when Tensa pulled Hichigo from Ichigo. After a quick review I realized it only still helps my argument as Hichigo caused dispair but never displayed it himself as a seperate entity. Further, once the duality became a sigularity, or the Ultimate Face-Palm, the sigular being did display doubt. However, this doubt was not a personifaction of Ichigo's will, rather it was a clash between Ichigo and the fused being. This singular entity was sadden because of it's own reasons, not Ichigos.



Now I do welcome a good counter argument, but until then...

Gestuga FACE-PALM



http://youtu.be/4_r54uUckBc