Bleach Chapter 509 Discussion

@KuroNoKenshi:

Would it make a difference?

Here are my 2 sources:

mangareader:

...forgive me... Juha bach-sama.

with ending text:"What do the enemy's words mean?"



mangastream:

...I'm sorry.  Juha bach-sama.

with ending text:"What's the true meaning behind the enemy's true words?"



I see no particular  confusion

^Me neither but I gotta admit that I DID fall prey to this aizen-culture. Not that I see Aizens everywhere but he does pop out in my head whenever I see plans. You gotta hand it to the fandom for making such a laughable issue

SilentTruth said:
Yamamoto said 'Jura bach sama'



Does that mean he used to be his boss then?



nah it was Juha Bach that said "forgive me Juha Bach sama" we got a META-JUHA-BACH here lol... or JUHA-BACH-INCEPTION

so that means his not the real Juha Bach their is still a better boss for the quincy out there

Candor said:
Trafl-guy said:
I just don't see the point of the last 4 chapters, I mean either one of Yama's bankai directions could've taken them out but Kubo decided to reveal them all at once leaving little to the imagination and it turns out none of them are that impressive not to mention one of them is of course another getsuga motherfucking tenshou.



It had no real story, and not a very good fight. Just some good artwork and Yama being "epic"



It's also the epitome of stupidity that he shows all his Bankai "the limit" when he JUST talked about being secretive helped him survive the Quincy attack.

People said the same thing when Yama released his Bankai: "This is stupid, he went bankai when he knows his enemy could steal Bankai, his enemy is gonna steal that bankai and he'll kill Yamamoto." That thought itself is stupid, I mean ok Kubo had some bad story-telling at some points, but no author is ever stupid enough to just let a character reveal all of its cards and let the other one steal them simply just like that, and it was explained in this chapter. Same thing goes here: " He threw all his cards and he's waiting for the enemy to come and destroy them"  How stupid could an author be to come up with something like that? Let's also not forget that Kubo can and did some good plot-twists before, especially the one that caught almost everyone who watched Bleach out of guard, yes, Aizen, unless it was spoiled or someone is watching Bleach only to bash it. (btw I lol @ people who say Kubo ass-pulled Aizen's betrayal without any plans from before, between the SS infiltration and before he appeared to Hinamori namely)



I also remember the rage in Naruto when Tobi's identity (and it's being explained now) was revealed (even Hitler raged), people just need a reason to bash a series although nothing is explained about the thing they're complaining about, so how about just enjoying the chapters you're reading and wait for some explanations? Or just discuss the chapter and predict what's going to happen instead of complaining?



That's his Bankai, he DID say they weren't able to steal it because they didn't know much about it. You'd expect a little discretion especially since east or west could've taken Juha out alone instead of showing them all like that.



And no, Aizen's betrayal wasn't good. And no it wasn't spoiled. It just wasn't good.

Even IF you didn't see Aizen coming, the rest of the plot was stupid. Sure the rukia/urahara part was interesting but a man with such predictions sure can tell that he'll need Orihime 3 chapters later..oh wait. Far more impressive twists are given in better quality/quantity in basically any good-enough show.

I seriously doubt Yama would make a rookie mistake as big as releasing his BK without first being sure the guy he is fighting is the real JuhaBach he knew and fought against 1000 years ago. To think that Yama would be fooled by such a petty illusion is hilarious.

Even without any senses, he was able to discern that he was fighting the real Aizen in their battle in the RW, and we all know that Aizen's ability to create illusions was far superior to anything anyone else could hope to produce. Yama said that even without any senses he could still tell who he was fighting by the feel of Aizen's reiatsu, which he could never fake.

Knowing this I don't see how the guy he just killed could be anyone other than the Bach he knew previously. It's now obvious there is another Bach even older and more powerful than the one we now see.

And the way everyone was treating JuhaBach as though he was the head guy even more leads you to believe that this is no illusion. I don't think that Blondie is the new and original boss, or why would he have not tried to steal Yama's BK after he released his north technique. I think he may actually be there to gather information for the real boss whoever that may be. If he were the top guy why would he not at least try to save a comrade powerful enough to one shot Kenpachi, those types of guys can't just be lying around. And even if Blondie is the new boss who's to say that Yama will release his BK again just to have it stolen, as we know that Yama now knows how BK's are stolen. Yama is not foolish enough to let that happen surely.

^I think it was someone else transformed as Juha..cuz the real Juha was killing his comrades without giving a shit

@Fai I've seen a couple of people confirming that panda's version is right, so mangastream's  is probably wrong.



Kanic said:
Candor said:


I've been wondering about these pages in addition to a sketch from repeat & reboot I can't find now (a guy with spiky hair's sketch). The first guy your post looks like a Quincy, Hiyori smelled a Shinigami, so I'm not sure it's the same guy, but one of these 2 (if they're not the same person) is probably the one who attacked Kirge, since as I mentioned previously opening a Garaganta is not simple and few are those who know how to open one.



About Bach's theory, I think I'll put it aside for now since there are still some mysteries and I'll think of the original Juha Bach as a person or just a mystery until we get further plot-points. As many people mentioned, the blondie will be the one to take control of things for now, he's not a normal subordinate after-all.



Agreed on the Juha part. I'd just like to point out one final thing. Juha has been incredibly hyped by Kubo (you know lots of color pages, flashy entrances and such) so I think that he aint gonna be pushed aside so easily. ALSO, I would like to say, in regards to the identity of the mysterious man in the begining chapters,

that we mustn't necessarilly suspect anyone and everyone as a candidate for the boss of the sternritters. May I remind you that it is HIGHLY possible that a THIRD party will be heavily involved (and I ain't talking about HM). And besides the RG we might as well consider rogue quincies who don't belong anywhere(why assume that Ishida and his dad are the only ones?)I'd take it you're talking about the Royal Guard here aren't you? I'm interested to see how they fit in all this. Rogue Quincy.. dunno about that but let's see what's gonna happen.



Inarius said:
Candor said:
I've been wondering about these pages in addition to a sketch from repeat & reboot I can't find now (a guy with spiky hair's sketch). The first guy your post looks like a Quincy, Hiyori smelled a Shinigami, so I'm not sure it's the same guy, but one of these 2 (if they're not the same person) is probably the one who attacked Kirge, since as I mentioned previously opening a Garaganta is not simple and few are those who know how to open one.



About Bach's theory, I think I'll put it aside for now since there are still some mysteries and I'll think of the original Juha Bach as a person or just a mystery until we get further plot-points. As many people mentioned, the blondie will be the one to take control of things for now, he's not a normal subordinate after-all.



Yeah but since the true Juha has been alive for more than a thousand years we can safely say he's a shinigami and since both shinigami and quincy are teachings there's no reason why a soul who learned the shinigami teachings can't learn the quincy ones as well.



Hyori did smell a shinigami yes but it was prob his shinigami part...has Hyori even "smelled" a quincy before?



I no, then what she smelled was only "half" of him sort of speak and since the guy is both he prob found a way to open garagantas as his ass pleases.



Yamamoto did recognize the fake Juha as Juha but who's to say when the war broke down, this guy didn't just stood in the shadows and ordered fake Juha back then to fight Yamamoto so that we would remain unknown.



Kubo needs an ultimate villain to end this arc and what better boss than half shinigami and half quincy....he prob even has hollow powers.



And like Grimmm pointed out that guy looks like the guy in the middle








As for the blondie, he's prob this guy's right hand and the overseer of the "invasion"...he'll most likely take his leave once all the "pawns" die.Add a Fullbring to that and you got yourself an unbeatable villain. :P



Anyway from what you're saying there's a guy who's working from the shadows, manipulating Bach and the other Quincy, could be right, we'll probably get information about that next chapter, or at least we'll get something about the guy who killed Kirge.



Here's the spiky-haired guy's sketch btw, just found it:

I didnt expect Yama-ji to destroy him so badly.Well, he was probably fake though, thats why.Anyway, cant wait to see next chapters, something is just wrong.Its too easy.