Bleach Chapter 509 Discussion

Candor said:
It looks like mangapanda's version won the debate today. That guy is Juha Bach, therefore Yamamoto recognized him, the Quincy were also calling him your majesty and the king and stuff like that, so he is without a doubt Juha Bach. However, while looking around I found something interesting; Juha Bach's name's reference is not Johann Sebastian Bach, but his son Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach, aka the "Bückeburg Bach", as a reference to the city he used to live in. If Kubo is referencing the Bach family as a whole then what Bach meant with "Juha Bach-sama" is none other than his father.



So you are sayin that Juha DID die but there is another one named as Juha Bach and is the REAL mastermind (though a different person). I see your reasoning but I don't really like it. I mean it's been barely 30 chapters and we BARELY saw Juha in action..so what are you saying is: bring a new villain in the fray only to replace him without really giving him any proper attention and in such a small interval? Naaah. I can't bring myself to like this scenario

Candor said:
Kanic said:
Hmmm, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. That shadow looks pretty much like the Juha Bach we know so him being dead is a little controversial with what you are saying in this post...



BUT, with a little more thinking I realised that you refered to him as "something"

and it struck me, maybe this Juha Bach is something like a part of the original's consiousness. I think that if you are right with what you are saying about the names then in a sense this Juha Bach who is now dead would be the original's offspring, again in an abstract sense and not in the literary parent-child as you proposed. But him not being a person as you said might be plausible, and a tad more original than the dead Juha being an illussion.I can reach that point from a couple of routes. First is the Quincy, the Quincy is a teaching, more like a religion, there is a reason why the Quincy are fighting, which we don't know till now. The Quincy being like a religion means they worship something, that'd be the root of all existence. 2nd is Aizen, he was trying to make the Soul Key to open a the gate to reach the Soul King. From conversation between Urahara and Aizen it appears that without the Soul King the world would crumble, which means the Soul King is the root of all existence, the "thing" the Quincy worship.



Now coming to Juha Bach, he died saying "forgive me Juha Bach-sama", which makes me think he's apologizing because he couldn't fulfill his objective, the Quincy's objective. In addition to that double-spread my theory is that Juha Bach is the Soul King, and Bach was asking for forgiveness from the root of all existence.



I think this theory is still better than the "there's another villain" one.



Zogundar said:
Candor said:
[Remember that double spread we talked about in the discussion thread for ch.500? the one where Ichigo and Aizen are flying toward "something" that looks like Juha Bach..?Sorry, I am not familiar with this spread, nor could I find it after searching, to what do you refer?

*edit* Nevermind, I think I found it on Batoto, big black ink blot in the top right?Yea the one which shows Ichigo and all the villain he fought, I'll try bringing it here just a moment. here it is:








A-HAH. Exactly what I was thinking but I held my tongue cuz some chapters ago you and I were discussing about whether Juha (we were calling him the bearded-dude remember?) is indeed the Spirit King(not Soul XD). You pointed out back then that Juha might not be and that the Sternritters might not be the RG. I held back this time so as to not provoke you or anything and you say it in my face like that?

DUDE WTF?!?!? XD.



Anyway, from the above you can guess that we more or less are on the same boat. BUT there has been a lot of stuff that kinda disprove the whole Juha=S-King.

So I don't really wanna throw us back into that pit.

He's not the real Juha Bach.....



Anyways Genryuusai was fucking BA.

I didn't expect the fight to end that quickly, but I'm glad that plot is finally progressing, and that we now know why Ichigo and Yamamoto's Bankai's couldn't be captured.



But, seriously, WTF? Was that guy the real Juha Bach...or was he a fake? This war is definitely far from over he was just a false Juha Bach. Fingers crossed that Uryuu doesn't join the dark side.



Where is Ichigo and Urahara? Kubo just left them and we don't even know who the person was the was holding the katana to Urahara's chin (could it be Grimmjow?!).



On another note: Why don't the Shinigami's use some defensive Kidō?

Kanic said:
I don't really understand who are you refering to as the spiky-hair guy. Someone we know? Maybe kaien(X-Vice captain of Shunsui, you youself said we will learn something about him and why he looks like Ichigo)I wasn't really refering to anyone with that picture, I was just wondering who that guy is. He's probably a new character (nakama?) that'll appear in the new set of characters we'll get soon. I doubt he's Kaien, his hair is too bizarre for being Kaien lol, he's short too. Kaien is Ukitake's XVC btw, not Shunsui's.



I can't agree though with the fact that someone is controlling Bach. He is a badass by nature, he recieved so much hype as a boss of the Vanderreich (forgive my spelling) and from the very first momment Kubo named him "the empire's king"(I still wanna hold onto that cuz it hyped me greatly).I actually think he's the Bach Yamamoto knew 1000 years ago, he's not just a toy, or he's a kagebunshin no jutsu lol. I'm interested to see where this is heading, and I'm interested too in the reason Bach freaked out when he saw his previous comrades, because you know, he was portrayed as a heartless brutal villain.

Why do I have the feeling that the blonded Quincy is the one that's acting as decoy when Genryusai slain "Bach"?

And that's the end of Juha Bach.

Fake Bach is fake Bach.  Of course since this is the intro to the last arc, this isn't the end yet.  Kubo still has a lot of topics to cover.