Vampire Knight Chapter 87 Discussion

Narutowolf77 said:


Maybe you're right about the plot thing rather than the end pair, I'll take that into consideration but I doubt my feelings will change. As for Kaname being a stereotype as well, to be honest I've never seen a character like Kaname in a shoujo manga before (at least not a lead character).



Honestly, I really don't see anything outstandingly unique about Kaname.  He fits squarely in TV trope's Beautiful Elite and Anti-Villian lists as a glaring trope of the first order. Still, that is not to say I dislike him as a character.



I also think Kaname is definitely not a selfless person lol. Selflessness is to be concerned more with the needs and wishes of others than with one's own. Kaname is clearly incredibly self-confident and thinks he knows best. He does what he wants. He disregards much of what other people say. He is inconsiderate. He doesn't give a shit about what Yuuki thinks on how to deal with the co-existence issue of humans/hunters/vampires/purebloods. Although you could argue that he's in a sense doing it for her, she clearly does not want him killing so many people for her so no brownie points there.



As for your examples, I think they simply illustrate how much Zero hated vampires, especially purebloods, including Yuuki in  the early chapters. Clearly from the most recent chapter Zero is shown to have changed his mind completely. It's very hard to blame him and call him out as an asshole for hating vamps because -



He was educated/brainwashed to hate vampires from a young age as a hunter in training.

His master was grievously injured while protecting him from a vampire.

His whole family was killed by vampires.

He was changed into a vampire by a pureblood and had to endure enormous personal pain AND alienation from the Hunter's Association where he by rights belonged.



If he didn't have trouble overcoming this hate then there would be something intrinsically wrong with him. And anyway he was portrayed with character flaws in the beginning so Hino could slowly show his characetr development into the better, more mature Zero of recent chapters.



Really, if anything could be called an asshole moment then you can't forget the multiple times Kaname told Zero he was a mere pawn/weapon and only alive because he allowed it. lol

i'm pretty sure they kissed cause she stood on her tip-toes

=)

Sabamiki said:
Okay, right now I'm totally scared. I read a theory that the person Yuuki danced with is not actually Zero, because it was very unlike his personality, and because of Kaname's timing and how he appears to be smiling in the second-to-last panel.



Then I remembered Yuuki telling Isaya-sama how Zero once said to her that he doesn't know how to dance. The way he touched her lips on the balcony when she almost uttered his name was SO MUCH like Kaname. GAHH, Kaname-sama is up to something!! Zero was supposed to be keeping watch on the vampires inside, would he really just casually walk out for a little chat and dance knowing that Kaname could attack at any time? Does that really seem like Zero-kun? Considering how serious he is about all this and his job in general...



SOMETHING JUST DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT ABOUT THIS >_<



Can you imagine? We know that Kaname has incredible shape-shifting powers and can use other bodies. Is he pulling strings again? There is no way that he would just hop into Isaya's "trap" like that- with all these purebloods around someone is bound to have sensed him already. Could he have used Zero's likeness to slip past them and manifested another familiar to distract Yuki? Just what is going onnn? D:



Also, hello to everyone!! I'm sorry for exploding like this out of nowhere, I'm likely to be completely off the mark here but it's just so fun to speculate! I am a fan of both Zero and Kaname, and after catching up with the chapters, I have all these thoughts whirring around in my head. Don't mind me! ><



Honestly I doubt it. What would be the point in Kaname impersonating Zero? Would he even stoop so low? Why were we given that flashback sequence when they were dancing if it wasn't Zero?



Zeki kiss/almost kiss happened, no lame theory can convincingly circumvent this haha

Yuuki, though not enough blood, needs to be quick on visiting parent's old friends.



Zero's been taking vampires' bloods, too.  Mask party with some of their moment until Kaname? appearing.

wintercrush said:
@inzaratha-  I almost completely agree with your post, although I find some of Kaname's history and actions sad, ultimately he could become a selfless hero the way the manga is progressing. I can understand what drives him to do what he does, but I don't approve of his methods.



She is at constant war with herself because of this, even suffers from slight identity problems because she is confused on which is the "right" Yuuki to be.

That's why when she cuts her hair off in the recent manga chapters, she calls it as lifting the weights, and breaking the bond she created to be Kaname's fiancee.



Ultimately what has always bothered me about Kaname was always the fact he saw all of his surroundings a part of a game he has to manipulate, constantly using his pureblood power to gain the upper-hand in the game. One that he played with Sara and Rido.



I respect Yuuki because she is an example of Kaname could have been, not once used her pureblood power to make others submissive to her. Making people genuinely wish to support her.



I agree -  I also think Kaname could be heroic - I guess this sort of makes him a tragic figure in the Greek tragedy type sense, the whole tragic flaw thing is his hubris - overwhelming pride - really just like in Greek tragedy heros, the pride cometh before the fall type.      If he was just a jerk or a low life it would not be a tragedy - but he is not truly wholly evil and has the possibility of being heroic which makes the behaviors much sadder.

I hope that we see more scenes with them, I enjoyed the chapter just wish that Kaname hadn't shown up on the last page.    I wish they had taken each other's blood, cause that would have given them power for the fight ahead.

We know that Kaname's purpose in showing up is not to stop them kissing but to kill everyone!!!   So I am sure they all be fighting in the next chapter and it would have been better if they both were not low on blood, cause there is a correlation to how well a vampire can fight and how much blood they have in them, especially the blood of a lover they crave.

NOOO..no no no no nooooo :( just whyy did this chapter ended like this >_< .. zero open your eyes shis just playing with youuu >_< ..

i love zeros character and i like kaname too, and i think that kaname and yuki are good together, and zero deserves a better girl than yuki, after she did leave him cause of kaname..and now his just secound choice >_< .. whats wrong with the managaka if the anime ends with zero x yuki im gona shoot my self..lol

im just saying zero deserves someone better..and yuki x kaname is the best couple..

wintercrush said:
@underthesamesky: I'm really enjoying reading your analysis of this because your thoughts are on the wavelength of mine.



You're making me want to reread the series ._.



I started reading this mange around 4 years ago, I've forgotten so many of the little moments!



Oh, definitely reread the series! I do that every so often and it really helps your understanding of the series. There's a lot of connections from earlier in the series to later. Plus, there's a lot of parallels ;D (Shizuka/Ichiru and Sara/Takuma for example; two parties in the first arc, two parties in the second; etc)



And thanks! :D I'm glad you enjoyed my analysis x3