Bleach Chapter 471 Discussion

  • #58
SagaraYuzuru said:
Indeed. Understanding does not mean being able to relate, but to know why. Yukio became isolated because his parents where the type that would only love a child that would be what they wanted, and Riruka wanted to keep everything see loved to herself, keeping them away from others. They were "selfish" and "bratty" because that's how they grew up as, and there are a lot of children like that. The only difference is that they had powers, while no one (for all that we know) in our world have those.



Yukio didn't even try to talk to his parents, he just completely shut them out.



Riruka is selfish and bratty, but she took it to the extreme when she kidnapped and help a guy hostage inside her box, it's completely different than just stealing dolls or other things.



Having power doesn't automatically mess you up, these people were already messed up to begin with.



SagaraYuzuru said:
But you're right about Griko. It's hard to understand why the thought "kill my wife" crossed his mind. Either he never thought it would work, or he actually had a very bad relationship with her that would provoke such a thought. It's only known that he regretted it, only to have his eye blown out because of it. (Also, has anybody thought that Griko's name has the 'ko' in the end, which is used for a girl's name?)



We know nothing of his wife, all we're shown is that he spontaneously killed her for no good reason, to test his powers out.



SagaraYuzuru said:
And yes, it would be unfair to put Jackie in the category of being horrible, since what happened to her was not her fault. The only question remain is who is so extreme to kill because somebody stole a pair of shiny boots. I guess it would be some criminal gang or the mafia who would do it.



Yeah, her dad screwed her family over.  They were killed because he did some illegal stuff on the black market.
 
  • #59
Two things

One: It seems the differneetnce between the fullbringers and SS:  Is that the full bringers say: "At least I  ADMIT it!"

Two: With the exception of Giriko I feel sympathy for all of them. I mean I can get wanting to test your powers out, but if you are an ADULT and are not sure how they work why not test them on something like a mouse first, instead of your own wife?
 
  • #60
icegenie said:
2. Yes I believe its possible for a 7 year old kid to do what Riruka did if given superpowers. When I was about that age, a female relative of my age stayed in my house for a week. I really liked the doll she had and I took it when she wasn't looking and hid it somewhere she couldn't find it. But conscience got the better of me, just like Riruka. She realized that the situation turned into something she din expect. She definitely wasn't psycho. If she was, she wouldn't have realized that.



Yeah, but she wasn't really remorseful or anything, she just looked like she was bored after watching that guy suffer.



icegenie said:
3. Yes, the fullbringers don't deserve our pity. Ichigo used his powers to good use. Even though he din have an unfavourable lives like some, he had his own share of mishaps in life. Actually I don't think yukio and riruka had a bad life. Their revenge on SS is still unjustified at this point (if that is their motive). Even though the shinigamis might be arrogant or whatsoever, they have a ultimate mission which is to protect SS.



Hmmmm.. I think that's it for now. Kubo has lots more explaining to do.



Except for Jackie, the rest of them seemed to have a pretty good life, they could have easily went on with their lives and kept their powers to themselves.  The flashbacks had nothing to do with the Shingamis.
 
  • #61
From all the Fullbringers that are fighting I like Rurika the best, since she doesn't really want to fight. Nice chapter, the back story was pretty good.
 
  • #62
Why are fullbringers angry about shinigami? Shinigami's duty is to protect humans from hollows and take care of souls. Shinigami aren't responsible for humans and how they live their lives. What lies did Ginjo fed his team or what made Ginjo hate SS so much?



Also how did the fullbringers get their power in the first place? I haven't seen any of them come in contact with hollow.

What happened to Riruka sister in the end? xD



Many questions and so little pages to answer them each weak.
 
  • #63
Wow! Fullbringers are screwed in the head. Especially that guy that killed his wife just like that simply because he wanted to test his power. Ether he hated his wife or his completely crazy. Or more likely he distant himself from humanity losing the ability to feel for others.

Riruka pulled an abduction, again failing to feel for the pain of the other person but at least she has the excuse that she was only 7 and that in the end she kind of felt for him as she saw his condition and stopped.

The other one was normal i guess.





niedude said:


GrindPantera said:
Also I want to thank Fai for his/her wonderful analyzes every week (jump to your komments everytime!), it really helps me understand what I don't get in the chapters (since I kinda read the chapters and feel like nothing important has happened...)



DONT!

This is as good a lesson here as it is in real life. No matter what, NEVER blindly anticipate another's opinion just so you should have something to follow. That is pure irrationality and the single worst aspect of the human mentality, which has made it possible for totally incompetent yet charismatic figures to rise up the ranks and be considered leaders and figure heads when in reality they are nothing more than a hollow shell of a person.



If you read something and honestly believe that nothing did happen, then stick to that as an initial analysis. It is your own, and nothing will change that. However, and this may sound slightly antagonic, don't stick to that if, when in an educated discussion or any other type of debate or place where information is being trated, you see that someone does make a good point and in fact there is one opinion that seems to be more truthful, more logical, or more to your liking.



What is important is that you, yourself and no one else, build your own educated opinion and never try to follow someone else's just because the way they phrase this or deepen the meanings of that makes them sound smart!



Very, very ,very correct. This "thanking" many do to Fai for showing them the way is ridiculous. The guy isn't Kubo and nether does he have the Bleach book of secrets in his disposal. The things he says are just his theories and own conclusions, which he can wright all he likes and some might end up being wrong and some right but in the end they are nothing but just theories up in the air that he likes to make, people treating them like they come from the Bleach book of truth is ridiculous.  Don't this people have imagination of their own anyway, or even ability of analyzing to make their own theories? If they really can't get anything then they are better just stop reading than becoming blind fans of the ideas  of other people simply because they have no ideas for themselves.
 
  • #64
Okay, from a psychological point of view, no, the kids (Yukio and Riruka) were not "mentally disturbed". This coming from me who did 1 year of psychology in university, and Im assuming you never did any. Children who dont receive enough guidance from parents tend to do things their way. As I have mentioned earlier, children do whatever they can to get instant gratification. If they are not guided properly, they would not know the true meaning of satisfaction. And hence, their world will be shaped in a negative way. This is the essence of what we all know as "bad childhood". But most people grow out of it. They snap out of their own delusional world when they are older, by their ownself or with the help of others. Most people have some form of traumatic experience in their childhood. This doesnt mean that most of us are mentally unsound. The point is that we snap out of it. People who are mentally unsound cannot control their emotions and thoughts because they do not realize the situation they are in. In whatever form of the definition, "mentally unsound/disturbed" does not fit the description of the Fullbringers and their past.



From Yukio's point, we obviously can see that he is unhappy of the way things are now. He is unhappy of how he hates everyone. This was pointed out by Hitsugaya. And because thats the only way of life for Yukio, he is now trapped in self-denial because deep down he knows that what Hitsugaya said about him was correct.



From Riruka's point, it wasnt explicitedly mentioned but she was definitely feeling a sense of regret for how she handled issues when she was young. Now she's much older, and she knows that its not right to take things belonging to others as her own. Children steal stuff when they are young. May it be a candy from a store or a friend's pencil. That was Kubo's point about Riruka. Just that because of her abnormal powers, she went a bit extreme. But as I mention again, she snapped out of it. This time round, she did not HIDE Ichigo in her box. She described the Fullbringers' old ways as "stupid". The "horrible thought" of killing someone with her power that didnt cross her mind.. Now has, and she is fully aware of it.



In case anyone wants to make an argument about Riruka stealing Rukia's powers/reiatsu..

Firstly, Rukia's reiatsu is not the thing that she really wants. She is stealing it in order to attain your goals. It's the same logic as how Tsukishima described Byakuya's fight, "you prefer to toy with your enemy, stealing away the things they hold dear".

Secondly, it's not unusual in a shonen manga. Dont tell me all the characters who stole powers in other shonen mangas are psycho.



Machuran said:
It is for no good reason, he just chose to kill his wife out of the blue just to test his powers. At least Light Yagami from Death Note had the decency to test his powers out on criminals before he turned into a power-hungry psycho, Giriko just went psycho and killed her all of the sudden.



Just that Light turned psycho only AFTER he found that his powers worked (as you mentioned). Doesnt justify Giriko's going psycho BEFORE killing because he backed out after killing his wife. Just as the law has different punishment for murder according to the state of mind, it shows that not all murders are mentally unsound. And there's a difference between murder and manslaughter. If it is really the case that Giriko had no hatred towards his wife, I am guessing that Giriko's case is more of a manslaughter. 'Hey I think this is a new power, lets try it out' and lo and behold, his wife appears and boom, she's dead. He probably did have the intent to kill but not the intent to kill his wife, which led to remorse. It just like Im holding a knife, I have no idea what it does but Im guessing it can cut and I wanna try it out. Out comes my friend at that moment and without a second thought, I try the knife on my friend and it does cut. Sometimes the body acts faster than the mind (I know it is literally impossible but it's an expression). There was no ill will towards my friend. Just wrong place and the wrong time.



BUTTTTTTTTTTTT.... That is still not an excuse to kill. Im not trying to defend Giriko's actions. It is a fact that he did have the intent to kill, whether or not the intent is directed towards his wife.





And I say this again, the Fullbringers were probably all 'sweet-talked' into this by Ginjo. Unfortunately, Riruka's recount was interrupted by Rukia. We would have to wait for another time one of them talks about this matter.
 
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