Bleach Chapter 460 Discussion

I can't get used to Rukia's uh... modified hair style, she looks far too much like a certain wishy~washy shinigami from another company.  But it really is still her, I can tell because any gentleness you see coming from those eyes is quickly washed away with a swift kick to Ichigo's face!



I gotta give it up to Kubo, even though Ginjou is a bit disappointingly devolving into classic loser villain status, he has brought some very nice art in the past few chapters. That giant panel featuring Ikkaku, Kenpachi, Toshirou, stoic douchebag and Renji is gold. Please sell that so that I may buy that poster and let it's awesomeness bless my house. At the very least let it bless all adjacent walls.

Hypno-girl said:
So just like I thought Rukia was not the only one siding with Ichigo in this matter.

We do not have enough information yet to assure that this new blade is Zangetsu but from the look of it it look like an 'empty zanpakuto' just like I said.





"An empty Zanpakuto" what do you mean by that ?  A zanpakuto without spiritual energy... ?  a Gestuga Tenshou with "An empty Zanpakuto"



If you say "yes", you really are a joker !!!



sLy777 said:
damn i was hoping renji and ikaku got promoted to captains already



Sorry but they have not the white dress with the number of the division and Ikkaku wishes to be under the command of Kenpachi until the death.

Fai said:
Sun cross is not "christian" symbol. Its a deep pagan symbol found all over the world. And it also has roots in budhism too since it represents the circle of life, reincarnation, etc. Its symbol that is a foundation of budhism(major religion in japan), as well as paganism and Kubo is known to research stuff like that.



Those symbols have strong meanings in japan and both swastika and sun cross have less meaning for western part of the world, actually, hence the misunderstanding or inability to comprehend why they are there.

Even the idea of soul pantheism seems strange to westerners, while it has been the core foundation of shinto religion since beginning of time.



LoL, u like preaching, don't you? Well, I was saying the same thing, but still ...

(

ElMorty said:
LoL, all these westerns asking a Japanese who's been drawing comics for Japan's youth not to use one of their religious symbols (their=Japenese) because over here it has a meaning that in Japan is not even that relevant ... that's globalization mixed with ignorance! ^^)





Fai said:
ElMorty said:
Again, saying that a technique is so powerful because you can pull it off just once in your life and and lose your fighting ability after that, and then making it easy to use a second time after less than 40 chaps is quite lame ....



Its so powerful, but its imperfect. Its a shortcut, just like Quincy's "final form" which was also incomplete(only one wing). I bet that before the end of manga both Ishida(angel-like design) and Ichigo(demon/reaper like design) will have gained the complete final forms that do not involve loosing powers

That's not the point: inventing a "form" or a "skill" or whatever you wish to call "dangai ichigo", so incredibly stronger than anything else that's ever been shown, justifying such a superiority with an high price to use it is definitely LAME, if this price is something you can so easily evade!

It's not a double-edeged sword, it's a tommy-gun!

And I don't remember anybody talking about Dangai ichigo's incompleteness ...





fai said:
There's no bad or good. Gray morality reigns in this manga, with exceptions of characters like Mayuri and Szayel.  Everyone has good and bad sides and soul society captains and etc are not "bad people" they are just very conservative, quite good people, placed in positions of power in a conservative authoritarian regime. A lot of nazi soldiers also were generally good people at the wrong places. Its not the people its the regime itself to blame.

LoL abiding Godwin's Law!

And no, as H. Arendt shows in "A Report on the Banality of Evil", nazi officiers weren't just "good guys at wrong places", they were the product of a massive campaign of hate, and are guilty in front of the human race because their conscience failed, making themselves think that what they were doing in the internment was something normal, not a crime at all.

Getting back IT,



Fai said:
No one is "bad guy" or "good guy". Thats just point of viewSS are conservatives. They have laws and principles. If Ichigo did something against those laws and principles that makes him a "badguy"  in their eyes and them "badguys" in our eyes but in the end neither ichigo nor the gotei 13 are the badguys.

I don't agree about the part in bold.... They are not the badguy in my eyes, nor I think they should be so in anybody else's eyes ... if Ichigo has done something against their laws they have the right to make him pay! SS has an important role: dealing with dead souls and protecting the living from the dead (hollow). Ichigo can't go fighting (and defeating, since he's the main chara, the hero) everybody just for defending himself. It's not shonen-esque.

A shonen hero would either run away (see also D.Gray Man, where grey moral actually is applied), or do something to prove his innocence (e.g. that Ichigo had to save his friends etc) ... Or in battle manga typically a biggest evil comes in, and fighting all together against third parties, the hero and the rest of the world are reconciled (see also Soul Society Arc).



Fai said:
ElMorty said:
It's not only the means: is the direction towards he is willing to lead the present situation by the change he represents: one where only the strongest are worth of surviving. This is the perfect portrait of the average bad guys in shonen mangas ... I really don't see how his principles could be right!



His principles were the logic of shonen hero - one should not give up and use all his strength to right the wrongs he percieves. in a sense, Aizen is Ichigo who has strayed away from his path.



Aizen killing Harribel at the end of Karakura arc puts him at the top of any hypothetical "moral badassery scale of shonen evil charas", abiding the well known format "X kills his companion Y without any damn reason".

Same said for Aizen killing captain No1likesu.

I thought Bleach was boring for the past few weeks now. But then this chapter came along! Wooh!

"Idiot. Rukia isn't alone."



Fuck. Yes. I got super excited at that panel with the bois.

Dishy said:
Am I the only person who thinks that Kubo's art is just getting worse?



Oh believe me, you're not the only one. In fact, there are so many jokes about Kubo's empty backgrounds and "minimalist" drawings that it became a meme. The last double spread page on this chapter is a particularly good example of how lazy is Kubo.

Hypno-girl said:




No, that's you making false assumption of what I said.

An empty Zanpakuto in this case would represent a blade without a soul.

If Ichigo goes into his inner world he will be alone, this blade is only an instrument anymore. Also this is only one of the many possibility that I stated in last chapter discution.





Zanpakuto teach their host technique which are then performed by the host of the blade but if you break them down what is actually these technique? The most likely exemple is reiatsu manipulation.

By manipulating their reiatsu in a way their Zanpakuto teached them they can use very different technique and those common reiatsu manipulation are known as kido.



SS is made of reiatsu alone, the form and shape of everything in it is according to how the reiatsu has been manipulated to create this world (That's why Ishida could use anything in his field of view as energy when he actually fought Mayuri)



Now here's the logic assumption part:

If Ichigo know how to perform GT, he do not need Zangetsu anymore and could probably pull it off with anything else because GT is simply done by compressing reiatsu in the blade and throwing it at the opponent (Or something similar to that, he told Byakuya about it when they fought before).

That's why his sword pressure looked similar to a GT to Ginjou, that is because the two are very similar.



Now going on with the assumption.

If we think of it that way we could assume that at one point Isshin was actually the host of Zangetsu as what he said could imply that he actually know him and in return this would also explain why he know how to perform GT and probably how he actually lost his power.

If that assumption happen to be true it also means many other things I could elaborate on but won't for now.

.





Hey girl seriously…I am really, but really tired to read your nonsense !!!!



No no no, it is you who don’t understand nothing

A dead Zanpakuto or without soul like you said, have not spiritual energy, so it a mere blade without power, and then the owner Shinigami cannot do any power as Gestuga Tenshou, or Sode no mai, or Senbonzakura dispersion even if the zanpakuto have a Shikai shape (Itchigo and Renji) as in the filer episodes of the rebellion of the zanpakuto.



The Soul Society is made of spiritual particles and not reatsu. A shinigami, a bounto and a quincy can absorb spiritual particles but not the reatsu.

The reatsu is only for the being alive (hollow, shinigami,, quincy….), and the reatsu is only the  spiritual pressure or spiritual energy.



Example: when someone to give his blood to a hospital, the nurse say him to eat and to drink (water) much after, but food have not blood within them.



There is a symbiosis and a synergy between a shinigami and his Zanpakuto, because When I tchigo say the name of the attack (GT) the Zanpakuto amplifies the attack (GT) He doesn’t it alone.

His Ken’atsu is powerful because his reatsu is all merely higher than before. Even Ginjou is surprised.

Kurosaki Isshin is the father of Itchigo, it is why I can do the Getsuga Tenshou, in the same family Shinigami can have the same power, it is why Isshin knew the secret of the Final Getsuga Tenshou. It  haven’t  anything to do with your weird theories





Hypno-girl said:




Well I kind of answered this post with what I said earlier in this post.

Zangetsu teached Ichigo how to perform GT, Ichigo can most likely pull it off without Zangetsu now.

Kubo said that Ichigo's birth wasn't a normal one and by that I do not mean what we actually know (That he is the son of a shinigami and a human).

For all we know he could be an experiment in hybrid project between shinigami and hollow or his mother could be more than met the eyes.



Also: Debate or get the fuck out.

This thread is not there for you to deny everything without basis and without proposing something else yourself.

You make fun of a lot of thing but you have absolutely nothing to deny it other than your opinion.

Please state what is actually wrong and WHY it is actually wrong. You seem really good at doing the former but when it come to the latter you are pretty much failling about everytime you try.

Then I bet you will answer this with a 'OMG you an idiot, i'm right but I won't say why you just have to guess yourself' in which case just do not answer please, i'll lose less time this way.



Hey Hypno-girl

Please for the love of God, stop writing useless and insane theories you are very boring.

It is not because you write pointless novels or “empty text filling” as Ringoo4 said, you are right.

With small sentences I can give you correct answers but not you.

It is really a pity that you cannot understand mere things, BAKA, brainless girl!!!

The Zanpakuto made by Kisuke is just a way to fill the soul of Itchigo with reatsu of Shinigami, only the form of his Zanpakuto and the form of his shihakusho (kimono) changed because they are linked to his reatsu.

It is very easy to understand that… why can you do that ??

CottonCandyLover said:
is it just me or did hitsugaya surpass the impossible by becoming even more bishie than he was?



He did.