Bleach Chapter 460 Discussion

amenboy972 said:
ReaperEXE said:
Hypno-girl said:
We do not have enough information yet to assure that this new blade is Zangetsu but from the look of it it look like an 'empty zanpakuto' just like I said.He's about to use Getsuga Tensho, isn't that enough?



Of course Hypno-Girl, you don't know what I was talking about in my first reply, do you ?









Whaaaaaat ??? Mr Fay ??? you are here !!!....I thought you were hidden in a trash can !!

So What's up Einstein ???

the last chapter seems interesting, doesn't it ?

just like you expected it..."giggle"



I love your idiocy.

Isshin used Getsuga Tenshou and his sword is called Engetsu, not Zangetsu. See what I did there?







CrystalTsubaki said:
I wonder who that hair behind Kenpachi belongs to. Is it just me or did Toushiro get a little bit taller?



For you and everyone else, the 'hair' behind Kenpachi is simply the fur (or whatever it is) that is attached to Ikaku's shikai.



Dangai-Ichigo is not a form, people should get that out of their mind. It is not something that he can use, it is something that he became.

It is when Ichigo achieved total control over his Zanpakuto, he didn't got more powerfull, he just fully controled the power he had which was enormous since the very start.

Ichigo is still at Dangai level.



Also people need to stop thinking that SS = Gotei 13/everything shinigami related

Gotei 13 is simply a part of SS. From what we were shown yet other than the Gotei 13 there is the royal palace, central 46 and the Kido corp and I wouldn't be surprised if there is other section to SS.

If central 46 say that they want Ichigo dead because he did the unforgivable act of seeking hollow power then even the captain commander have no word to say in the matter.

That's why he was ready to execute Rukia in SS arc when he most probably thought like everyone that this was an unpropriate punishement. Order are absolute in SS.



The gotei 13 is actually divided in 4 part according to the recent evenement.

-Those that despise Ichigo and do not mind having him killed

-Those that feel betrayed by Ichigo because of their hatred of everything hollow related.

-Those that like Ichigo but not at the extent of betraying SS.

-Those that trust Ichigo and see him as a comrade/friend.



Obviously there will be a mess. Ichigo is seen as a hero by lot of people in the Gotei 13, the allmighty shinigami that fought on par and won against the worst ennemy SS ever faced, aka Aizen.

Some people will rejoice, some people will hate Ichigo, some people will find the decision unfair and some other will decide to fight this decision.



Just like Fai said, Rukia heard what Ichigo had done as it was showed in the badge scene, she then mobilized people that she knew would trust Ichigo and went to the world of the living to help him.

Everyone of them have a motivation and a reason to trust Ichigo and everyone of them consider Ichigo's punishement as something unfair.

From left to right:



Ikaku: Look up to Ichigo since the moment he got defeated by him, he bragged about him and trusted that he could overcome anything that would stay in his way since the SS arc. In Zaraki's squad, power and fairfight is respect and he respect Ichigo on that matter.



Zaraki: Power is everything to him and Ichigo got it. Zaraki for sure wouldn't want his best fighting buddy to get executed before actually having a fight with him, it's not hard to see why Zaraki would side with Ichigo actually.



Hitsugaya: Developed a bond with Ichigo in the arrancar arc. Ichigo is also the one that defeated Aizen so it would be hard for Hitsugaya to not be thankfull to him. He is also a kid and despise unfairness when it happen to someone he know.



Byakuya: Since the end of SS arc Byakuya is kind of indebted to Ichigo. To Byakuya, rule and respect are his most important values so he must actually be the one that had the hardest time to chose to follow Rukia's plan.

In one side Ichigo must be punished but in the other he is indebted to him.

I wouldn't be surprised if he came only to give Ichigo a mean to fight and will go away pretty soon to follow SS's order again.



Rukia-Renji: Obvious reason, they fought against SS back in SS arc, they wouldn't abandon Ichigo now.



They knew that Ginjou would steal Ichigo's FB (most probably by Isshin that very likely had past experience with Ginjou) so they waited for him to steal his FB.

That way Ichigo would be pure, clear of any hollow related power and they will then give him back shinigami power through Urahara's invention.

They might think that'll be enough to make SS forgive Ichigo and it might be true but we have actually no way to know yet.



Before someone start claiming that there's nothing suporting what I just said then know that it's just logic developed from what we already know since the very start of the manga. It might not happen but it will very unlikely contradict what will actually happen.

It is 10% speculation, 90% logic.

Fai said:
Karhu said:
Fai said:


Dishy said:
Am I the only person who thinks that Kubo's art is just getting worse?

Yes you are. Kubo's art has majorly improved over the years, especially the facial expressions and how he uses shading. Yes he does not use backgrounds, but his art itself has been majorly improved from self-cartoonish one this manga started in. I'd say out of the HST, his art is the best.



Fai, you realize that you are the only one to say the opposite so far? And also, WTF am I reading here.



and you do realize, kind sir, that you are what we normal people call "vocal minority"? right?



So just because we are the minority that means that our opinion can be completely ignored?



Thanks. I feel respected by your smugness and presumption! And why are you here debating with pepole if you can only respect your opinion?!

Damn, I caught up at the best part >_<

Han-yuu said:
Actually i'm reading this "fallen hero" and "evil king" speculation here on MAL ever since aizen got defeated by ichigo and Fai thought Urahara is the true bad guy siding with evil king and the way you guys talk seems like fact and not speculation as Kubo himself debating here and know what is coming next.  I'm desperately waiting for next arc to see how it will turn out.



Still i wonder how the king is evil when aizen didn't get a chance to see him and did he killed humans and shinigamis or planning something like world destruction? and if aizen get hold on evil king true plans why he didn't even try to explain it to everyone and it's seems like i'm reading a different manga. dang. forget it.



Except that both Aizen's and urahara's dialogue implies that Aizen DID SEE OR CATCH A GLIMPSE of SK's true nature and THAT's why he did all of what he did from beginning - to change that.



Whats more, Urahara did NOT disagree with that idea and position, just said that its impossible to change(due to Sk being connected to EVERYTHING in the universe) and hopeless to try(not that its WRONG to want that).

@Fai and Hypno-girl: let me quote aizen and urahara brief conversation.



Aizen: Why you are controlled by that thing?

Urahara: "Spirit King" .. so you saw it. without him, soul society will split. king is the lynchpin, if the lynchpin lost then everything will crumble"

Aizen: That's the logic of a loser. "You always think not how the world is but how world should be"



Sure aizen comments are suggesting that soul king is the true evil but why? there is not a single indication for what he did, so we should think him as true villain and aizen as the fallen hero. (including hollow and shingami creation and endless fights. even if it did indicate that. i would say, there are always good and bad, light and dark, even human fight with each other, merciless killings, wars etc. heaven and hell. do good deeds or become evil you will face it on judgement day. that all concepts and that's how the world is working)



On the other hand Urahara comments making lot more sense. if everyone start thinking and doing "how the world should be" then everything will crumble in seconds. there are always someone controlling a family, a group, country or world. of-course not everyone is right or on justice but If soul king is not doing something like, what aizen did. for example

- killed lots of shingamis.

- betrayed his captain and friends.

- started chaos in soul society.

- befriended with hollows, become their leader. created arrancer and espadas, who killed lots of humans.

- killed his own subordinates. another betrayal.

- evil plan to destroy whole karakura town with hundred thousands of people including shinigami captains and soul society.



to hell with this. i don't even want to think about "fallen hero and evil king" theory. i will just wait for results to see how will kubo explain "Soul King" evil personality and plans, if your theories are correct and aizen is a fallen hero.

Great chapter, though it was all about - Ginjou: Well, you have your powers back, but still, your Getsuga isn't THAT powerfull - Ichigo: Wut?! It was just my sword's swing - Ginjou: Are you fucking kidding me O_O , or something pretty like that XD But it's nice to see some old stuff from SS after all this time :) Especially Renji and Byakuya, cool as always. Now I just hope that Fullbring arc will be something more than simple filler just to bring Ichigo's power back o_o

And is it just me, or is Rukia on colored page with Ichigo, looking just like Hanatarou? O.o

Fai said:




Oh but thats exactly what Fallen hero is. A guy has a great idea, starts to go towards it and somewhere along the way looses the road he has taken for a more extreme and more villainous acts towards his goal.



While we do not know Aizen's backstory to know it clear (for all we know he could be a long lost kurosaki family member or something, which would explain a lot of things about him), from how Ichigo views aizen's "heart", its quite clear that he is someone who has lost his way and just stopped caring about anything but end result in the end.



he is not anti-hero. There's no excuse for his cations and his means certainly were too deranged to be justified by the ends.  darth vader, darth revan, are also good examples of fallen heroes(yes i do not accept the existence of prequels) who lost their way for their goals, resulting in many atrocious and inexcusable acts.



What you said would be correct, if only Kubo wanted to portray Aizen like that. Aizen's characterization revolves all around power, and he never made a secret about that. And that's what Ichigo saw when the 2 swords came into contact.

CyborgNinja said:
Mormegil said:
Kubo: OH NOEZ BLEACH IS IN THE BOTTOM 5! I'VE WRITTEN MYSELF INTO A CORNER. TIME TO BRING IN HITSUGAYA!



That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw Hitsugaya. When I looked at that group of Shinigami I noticed that all of them except Hitsugaya have previously fought Ichigo and had a crucial role in his development. Which makes me think that he was added just for the rankings, probably at the editor's suggestions, since Hitsugaya is the most popular Shinigami. But it's understandable, since rankings determine whether or not the magazine continues to publish the manga. Not that Bleach will be cancelled since it's already become too big of a franchise for something like that to happen, but still, it was  shameful for a popular manga like this to be ranked so low in the past months.

Hitsugaya is connected to Ichigo through Aizen.



Hitsugaya had VERY big reasons to want to take Aizen Down, Ichigo did it, Hitsugaya has every reason to support him for that...