Bleach Chapter 460 Discussion
- Thread starter Barra08
- Start date
- #179
Karhu said:
Fai said:
Karhu said:
Fai said:
Dishy said:
Am I the only person who thinks that Kubo's art is just getting worse?
Yes you are. Kubo's art has majorly improved over the years, especially the facial expressions and how he uses shading. Yes he does not use backgrounds, but his art itself has been majorly improved from self-cartoonish one this manga started in. I'd say out of the HST, his art is the best.
Fai, you realize that you are the only one to say the opposite so far? And also, WTF am I reading here.
and you do realize, kind sir, that you are what we normal people call "vocal minority"? right?
Since we are talking about Bleach, normal people means either teens, fan boys or those who has zero experience of any other kinda manga than shonen, then I'm glad to be out of that circle.
-> Implying that Fai only read shonen.
I'm with Fai on this one, Bleach's art is great and he got a style on his own.
He is not lazy, actually it is probably quite the opposite.
Kubo use a design style he created over the years, he use many symbolism and reference in many of his drawing and pulling it off that well is the product of actual work.
You know how those background are drawn in the other manga you like so much? They are most of the time drawn by assistant, do not have any feeling and are copy pasta from the first photo the author can find in the net.
You should probably interest yourself a bit more to digital arts and different style of art other than the super detailed one you seem to like so much.
ElMorty said:
That's not the point: inventing a "form" or a "skill" or whatever you wish to call "dangai ichigo", so incredibly stronger than anything else that's ever been shown, justifying such a superiority with an high price to use it is definitely LAME, if this price is something you can so easily evade!
It's not a double-edeged sword, it's a tommy-gun!
And I don't remember anybody talking about Dangai ichigo's incompleteness ...
You got it wrong.
Dangai-Ichigo is not a form, it is just a term to refer to Ichigo post dangai training.
FGT got nothing to do with it, Dangai is the result of Ichigo training for over a year against Zangetsu non-stop and it got nothing at all to do with Ichigo knowing how to perform FGT. The price that was to pay was to use the FGT.
You are also implying that it was actually easy to make Ichigo recover shinigami power, for now just get off your horse and wait that Kubo deliver some new information about it, it might had a huge cost as well (Such as actually killing Ichigo's real body, or might be something else).
ElMorty said:
Fai said:
Sun cross is not "christian" symbol. Its a deep pagan symbol found all over the world. And it also has roots in budhism too since it represents the circle of life, reincarnation, etc. Its symbol that is a foundation of budhism(major religion in japan), as well as paganism and Kubo is known to research stuff like that.
Those symbols have strong meanings in japan and both swastika and sun cross have less meaning for western part of the world, actually, hence the misunderstanding or inability to comprehend why they are there.
Even the idea of soul pantheism seems strange to westerners, while it has been the core foundation of shinto religion since beginning of time.
LoL, u like preaching, don't you? Well, I was saying the same thing, but still ...
(
ElMorty said:
LoL, all these westerns asking a Japanese who's been drawing comics for Japan's youth not to use one of their religious symbols (their=Japenese) because over here it has a meaning that in Japan is not even that relevant ... that's globalization mixed with ignorance! ^^)
Fai said:
ElMorty said:
Again, saying that a technique is so powerful because you can pull it off just once in your life and and lose your fighting ability after that, and then making it easy to use a second time after less than 40 chaps is quite lame ....
Its so powerful, but its imperfect. Its a shortcut, just like Quincy's "final form" which was also incomplete(only one wing). I bet that before the end of manga both Ishida(angel-like design) and Ichigo(demon/reaper like design) will have gained the complete final forms that do not involve loosing powers
That's not the point: inventing a "form" or a "skill" or whatever you wish to call "dangai ichigo", so incredibly stronger than anything else that's ever been shown, justifying such a superiority with an high price to use it is definitely LAME, if this price is something you can so easily evade!
It's not a double-edeged sword, it's a tommy-gun!
And I don't remember anybody talking about Dangai ichigo's incompleteness ...
fai said:
There's no bad or good. Gray morality reigns in this manga, with exceptions of characters like Mayuri and Szayel. Everyone has good and bad sides and soul society captains and etc are not "bad people" they are just very conservative, quite good people, placed in positions of power in a conservative authoritarian regime. A lot of nazi soldiers also were generally good people at the wrong places. Its not the people its the regime itself to blame.
LoL abiding Godwin's Law!
And no, as H. Arendt shows in "A Report on the Banality of Evil", nazi officiers weren't just "good guys at wrong places", they were the product of a massive campaign of hate, and are guilty in front of the human race because their conscience failed, making themselves think that what they were doing in the internment was something normal, not a crime at all.
Getting back IT,
Fai said:
No one is "bad guy" or "good guy". Thats just point of viewSS are conservatives. They have laws and principles. If Ichigo did something against those laws and principles that makes him a "badguy" in their eyes and them "badguys" in our eyes but in the end neither ichigo nor the gotei 13 are the badguys.
I don't agree about the part in bold.... They are not the badguy in my eyes, nor I think they should be so in anybody else's eyes ... if Ichigo has done something against their laws they have the right to make him pay! SS has an important role: dealing with dead souls and protecting the living from the dead (hollow). Ichigo can't go fighting (and defeating, since he's the main chara, the hero) everybody just for defending himself. It's not shonen-esque.
A shonen hero would either run away (see also D.Gray Man, where grey moral actually is applied), or do something to prove his innocence (e.g. that Ichigo had to save his friends etc) ... Or in battle manga typically a biggest evil comes in, and fighting all together against third parties, the hero and the rest of the world are reconciled (see also Soul Society Arc).
Fai said:
ElMorty said:
It's not only the means: is the direction towards he is willing to lead the present situation by the change he represents: one where only the strongest are worth of surviving. This is the perfect portrait of the average bad guys in shonen mangas ... I really don't see how his principles could be right!
His principles were the logic of shonen hero - one should not give up and use all his strength to right the wrongs he percieves. in a sense, Aizen is Ichigo who has strayed away from his path.
Aizen killing Harribel at the end of Karakura arc puts him at the top of any hypothetical "moral badassery scale of shonen evil charas", abiding the well known format "X kills his companion Y without any damn reason".
Same said for Aizen killing captain No1likesu.
Actually that is why Fai refer to Aizen as a 'fallen hero'.
Nobody in espada were commrade, Aizen told it to them since the very beginning.
Trust me if Baragan or another espada had the chance to kill Aizen most would have likely done so.
What Aizen actually did was taking ennemy and not killing them as long as they serve him properly, that's not morally good in itself but that's by the principe of 'the end justify the matter'.
Aizen is still a shinigami, he refused hollowfication so he must despise hollow to a certain degree and use them only as experiment subject, he just disposed of this experiment subject when he killed Haribel.
Aizen did not care about killing anyone, that wasn't his goal, he just pushed whatever that was standing in his way out of the way. The only person he really meant to kill was the captain commander and that was because his position was symbolic, it wasn't personnal grudge or anything.
Anyway, the reason he is a fallen hero and not a hero is because he strayed out of the hero path at some point and Urahara said from the beginning that the moment he fused with the hogyoku he wasn't himself, he became more careless and it look like his instinct took the advantage the more he transformed.
Also: Debate or get the fuck out.
This thread is not there for you to deny everything without basis and without proposing something else yourself.
You make fun of a lot of thing but you have absolutely nothing to deny it other than your opinion.
Please state what is actually wrong and WHY it is actually wrong. You seem really good at doing the former but when it come to the latter you are pretty much failling about everytime you try.
Then I bet you will answer this with a 'OMG you an idiot, i'm right but I won't say why you just have to guess yourself' in which case just do not answer please, i'll lose less time this way.
1) Well, let me tell you something: any assistant that copies the first photo that he finds on the net and uses it as background is a better drawer than Kubo will ever be. The only style that Kubo managed to achieve in more than 10 years of work are cheap tricks that allow him to draw less.
Ever wondered why there are so many close-ups in Bleach: because the skin colour of most of its characters is white, with few or no facial hair. So Kubo can just draw the outline of the face, nose, hair, mouth and eyes and leave the rest completely white. And in this very chapter there was a very blatant example of his bad art style in the last double spread page: the superior half was completely white. You could turn that vertically and it fits in one page with no problems.
So "copy-pasta" mangaka are welcome. Their art style represents the work they do every week or month in hope to get published. Kubo's art style is the style of laziness.
2) When did you ever get the fact that Aizen is some sort of fallen hero? Ichigo said that he felt that Aizen was "alone", but that doesn't say anything about his character allignment. It could have been the loneliness of being alone at the top.
And Aizen is nothing else but a cliched villain, which Kubo's writing (which is waaaay worse than his "art") has made clear that he's evil. He killed all his allies because that's what cliched villains do: kill everyone at the first sign of failure. It's stupid and trite, but Kubo thinks that it's still cool. If Aizen actually tried to keep his comrades alive the battle would have gone differently. Even when he was under the control of the hougyoku, it was actually following the cliches pretty well: a villain that gains immense power in little time always acts very self-assured, until the hero defeats him. Then he'll have a nervous breakdown.
Also, Aizen's plan started a century ago and at that time he was as evil as he is now. Kubo never showed us that Aizen was good and he didn't even imply that.
And finally, everyone here is actually debating, even amenboy, and everyone is trying to bring his arguments. And we are not a vocal minority. We do not lack reading comprehension (which is just Fai's pretentious way to call someone a moron, i.e. everyone that disagrees with him), and we make fun of Bleach because we see it as it is: a joke. Irony and wit are the best ways to criticize something that you don't like. The only thing that you, especially Fai, have brought on this debate is preaching and smugness.
The ones that should get the fuck out are only you and Fai.
- #180
Clearly the fact that Bleach has received several color pages of late, thereby automatically landing itself in 1st(that's how Shonen Jump works) each time obviously means he - or his editor - doesn't care about the rankings at all.
Seriously, though, it doesn't matter who you are. Kishi, Oda, any of the authors in Shonen Jump - if you're series is consistently in the bottom five for some time, you're going to start panicking. In Kubo's case, his most popular characters appear out of nowhere, especially Mr. Popular Hitsugaya, and he seemingly brings this ridiculous fullbring arc to a close.
- #182
I don't even know why everyone thinks that Aizen is some sort of fallen hero trying to subvert the Soul King's government.
Even though Fai might be posting in Bleach manga threads as much as everyone else together he still isn't "everyone" but just "one".
Aizen isn't viewed like a fallen hero at all. Even if Soul King is some bad existence, Aizen wasn't a freedom fighter or anything like that. More like a crazy dangerous dude trying to replace some other possible dangerous dude.
Stop confusing Fai's theories with what people believe.