Vampire Knight Chapter 92 Discussion
- Thread starter yulric564
- Start date
- #2
For instance:
Kaname was asleep for 10 thousand years.
How the f*ck Yuuki´s parents were born? From other Kuran we never heard of? Why Kaname spent his life alone in the human´s village? What happened to his family? were they humans like the ancestress´ parents? Were they Kuran purebloods already? Why Kaname left?
What was the ancestress´ name? her purpose and goal was explained and she was not even given a name, her goal was to help humans because she "loved" them and her parents were humans themselves. How about Kaname?
What really happened to Rido, why his soul didnt die and got attached to Kaname? Was it because he was the one to awaken him?
Why Kaname released Shizuka, knowing that she would murder Zero´s family, and taking the risk that she would kill Zero too, leaving Kaname with no "knight" to serve Yuuki? He saw the twins playing the snow and "hey I have a big plan, they´re hunter twins, omg" and then Hino never explained what the plan was involving the twins.
Sara was the big villain "hey I wanna make an army and be queen" and then again her real intentions were never explained. Takuma´s conversation with Kaname was erased. Ruka, Kain, Shiki and Rima never stopped being supporting charas with no use at all.
Ruka "I love Kaname-sama and I always hated Zero, but hey, let me randomly out of nowhere protect Zero with my life when Kaname tries to kill him". Shiki "I wanna be with Takuma, because yes", Rima´s "I wanna be with Shiki because yes". Seiren "Im Kaname´s shadow but I ceased to appear and everyone forgot my existence".
Aidou "let me be a comical character till my very end with no development".
Because of Hino I freaking dislike everyone in this manga, and in this chapter, I disliked Zero.
As a Zero shipper, I disagree with the comments of "how you could forgive someone responsible for the death of your family". Let me re-phrase it:
I wouldn´t unless that person came to me to apologize with honesty.
What pissed me off it wasnt the fact that Zero forgave Kaname. It was the fact that it was Zero and not Kaname who took the step first.
It was Kaname´s duty to go to Zero and apologize. IT WAS HIS FUCKING DUTY. HIS.FUCKING.DUTY.
And then, yes, Zero would forgive him and would say those cliché quotes he said. bUT INSTEAD THIS HAPPENED:
Zero:"Lets take them down together, grandpa! This is not really-because-of you, kay!(Tsundere mode)"
Kaname: *ignores him, doesn't care what happens to Zero or if he gets hurt while he is trying to save his ass and the ass of all humans in the school, humans that Kaname desperately wants to protect but instead ignores them all, turns his back and goes to a freaking tower to commit suicide because he really loves them all*
Meanwhile, Yuuki keeps being useless, is carried by another kuran lapdog, changes clothes to her school uniform because that is urgent, goes get artemis,bites Aidou from nowhere, drags him to save, let me quote "the school and Kaname", not even bothering to add "and Zero".
So screw all the characters in this manga. Including Zero. As a Zero shipper not Zeki I still wish him to have a happy end with Maria or Shindou, but then everything is screwed in this manga, Matsuri sensei might be one of the best artists Ive ever seen, but she is one of the most terrible writers Ive ever read. period.
- #3
Im not really bashing on Yume because that couple is valid and is probably the couple that will finish for the last chapter and I lost all respect for Yuki after that sex scene or bed scene whatever that was. Yume is like Haruka and Juri and Kaien is like Zero (although I dont want Zero to end up with the "weird and uncool" Kaein the mother) Just like Kaien, Zero will end up with no one and Zero in the end is probably going to be the leader of the hunters.
The only fact that Im sad about is the Kiryu family isnt going to have another generation D''': No more Kiryu :<<< asdfghjkl SPAZ Zero is the last Kiryu.
Although Yume won the ship.. yeah you can have the vampire Yuki... Zeki= I was all in for Yuki the human(idc if she doesnt exist anymore, shes still alive in Zeros memories ok.) I just wanna reminisce the human Yuki and Zero back in the academy as disciplinary committee. Those were the days when vampire knight wasnt as crappy as it was now.
Well looking forward for the last chapter.. The last chapter of seeing Zero. Hes the only reason why I've put up with this series for so long till the end. Zero will be happy at the end. he will. he will. he will.
- #4
This is Hino-san manga so she can make what she want,
but she shouldn't be suprised if people outside Japan,
will stop buying manga and other goodies with VK.
I actually had the intention buy manga,
but now I happy that I don't started xD
Haha,I wish I could buy them all but there are no such things where I come from. T_T
Hino-sensei can not please both sides.She thought she could but her plan backfired.I feel a little sorry for her cause she is very talented. XD
- #5
kapwned said:
It sounds like Kaname is really redeeming himself as a character in this chapter and it explains his whole purposed from the beginning that some fans fail to remember. Yuuki is literally all Kaname lives for. If it weren't for her, he'd have no desire to live.
Redeeming himself??? This is what I hate about this story. Kaname does nothing and is still hailed as some god.
kapwned said:
I still think he's going to die though. And I swear Yuuki and Zero better not be together in the end. It's too disrespectful to Kaname. I hope Zero finds happiness and closure in the end, but yeah, not with Yuuki please. He deserves better anyway.
Yes Zero deserves better but it won't be disrespectful to kaname if Zeki does happen. Maybe you forgot that kaname is the one who ripped Zero's family apart. He manipulated and used Zero all his life and then threw him away like a discarded tool.
Redeem wouldn't be something a 'godly' character as you put it would have to do. He's been doing some seemingly heartless crap throughout this arc (though it was revealed he was kinda bluffing). He is TRYING to do what he thinks is best for everyone and for Yuuki. So yes, there is an attempt for redemption.
- #6
I think it meant Aidou has crush on Yuuki too which I thought back when he was tutoring her...
That's what think too. LOL or it could be that he didn't want Yuuki to know how much he was in love with Kaname ;)
It's interesting reading the thoughts on who is more deserving, Zero or Kaname. Personally I agree that Zero is far more deserving, and it isn't really a surprise at all that he is the knight. Besides the love triangle and main story plots Zero's growth as a character has been a big part of the manga. Kaname hasn't grown as a character at all, he is stagnant which is why even though he loves Yuuki he has given up on life. That's why if he dies it will be plain tragic rather than heroic. It would be heroic if he told Yuuki that he needed to die because he had lived his life and already had his share of happiness (however small that might be) and now needed to do something for the greater good, to make the world a better place for the people he cared about. However, he isn't making this sacrifice just for those heroic reasons, he's also doing it because he's tired of life and just wants to give up, he doesn't have any fight left in him. Kaname is a cold, calculating character who for the most part has lived a sad, bitter lonely life. Out of all the characters in VK I pity him the most, but at the same time it's all these traits that make him interesting as a character. Good character development would show Kaname finally realizing he has much more to live for than just Yuuki, and that even without her life is worth living. Kaname thinks is alone (besides Yuuki) because he is a pureblood - this does set himself apart from the others but he doesn't let other people break down that wall. There are a ton of people in the night class who care about Kaname and Yuuki as people not just as purebloods and he doesn't appreciate that. I would really like for Kaname to realize that he has other people by his side, not just Yuuki. If Kaname and Yuuki both live and end up together and Kaname appears to be more kind/gentle/changed/happier I don't believe it will be genuine character growth, it would merely be superficial because Yuuki would still be Kaname's crutch and if he lost her that more human side of Kaname would be lost. This is pretty much why I don't like Kaname and Yuuki together - on a visual level they look hot together and they have a romantic 'I need you' dynamic to them but it isn't a healthy relationship. They don't bring each other true happiness which is the other reason why Yuuki doesn't smile from her heart when she's with Kaname.
- #7
It sounds like Kaname is really redeeming himself as a character in this chapter and it explains his whole purposed from the beginning that some fans fail to remember. Yuuki is literally all Kaname lives for. If it weren't for her, he'd have no desire to live.
I still think he's going to die though. And I swear Yuuki and Zero better not be together in the end. It's too disrespectful to Kaname. I hope Zero finds happiness and closure in the end, but yeah, not with Yuuki please. He deserves better anyway.
- #8
I read up to volume 5 of Chibi Vampre and put it on hold for years, but indeed, it's a fun and cute. Vampire Doll was also fun for the first half, then it gets kind of stale. I also heard that the manga version of Hellsing is pretty good.
I also highly recommend Tokimeki Tonight. The main character is something between a vampire and a shape-shifter, and is one of the best, exciting and well-written shoujo manga that I've ever read. The manga was available in some european countries, but unfortunately, the scanlation process for this manga in English is at a snail's pace, but I was able to read in Japanese with some grammar knowledge and the help of a dictionary.
The first half of VK was at least decent and coherent. As much as I enjoyed the Kaname/Yuuki relationship, Hino seemed to rush through the second half, and like Orulyon had listed, she failed to address and clear up many of the mysteries presented throughout the series. Claymore, Death Note (and IMO) Monster sufferred from a similar symptom where the second half is weaker than the first half. The author either has a good idea how the manga is going to end, but fails to come up with intricately-woven event that lead to it, or the author doesn't seem to have a clue where to go with the story, like the case with Claymore that I have dropped at volume 18.
- #10
In VK, the *vampire* part, Yuukis accendence came at the proposed time when a major plot device was introduced to bring back. The *knight* part was delayed far, far, far too late. How as a writer can you have such a flimsy story line as to allow the LT to continue for too long, as stated by numerous other posters here, to the point where Zeki shippers were left on tenterhooks until chapter 89 of 93 to finally be shot down with *that* scene. It's rediculous. If the LT had been affectively neutered during the time skip it would have been far easier to stomach for all involved and reading the rest would have been edible. As it is now, its like warm sour milk. Horrible to look at and even worse to digest and smell ...
[...]
As for the "lapdog" scenario ... how is he not? Forget points of view and opinions. Look at the cold hard facts. Lost his parents to vampires. Vampires released by Kaname ... Kaname knew of Yuukis past and strived to not wake her and left this responsibility to Zero during the day because he could not ... The story in the second arc is just convoluted and in disarray. Zero making his own choices is a Get out of Jail Free card played to make it appear he is moving on. It's a cheap plot device to apparently end his seething hatred of vampires ... More overly purebloods, but honestly I can't see it ... It wouldn't have happened this way and somehow I get the impression Hino knew this when she ran the LT too far beyond being acceptable.
I really agree with this.
The people who dislike Zero always point to Zero's hatred for vampires as a reason not to like him. He can't let go; he can't move on. As a fan of the character, I also wanted him to let go and move on. It would have been better for him as a person, and it would have gotten the *knight* part of the story moving much sooner.
HOWEVER, we now find out the ugly truth of it all: Zero's hatred for vampires was necessary for the love triangle.
Because he was needed for a terrible love triangle, Zero couldn't let go of his hatred for vampires any sooner than this. The main impediment to Zeki was Zero's hatred. If Zero accepted vampires, accepted Yuuki, and accepted himself, but still couldn't be with Yuuki, then that would be the end of Zeki. No more love triangle, Zero is free to move on to bigger and better things.
And that's exactly what happened in chapter 92. Zero seemingly accepts his vampire nature. He promises not to run away from his feelings for Yuuki anymore and essentially forgives Kaname (more on this later). But none of that was to run into Yuuki's arms, it was to push Kaname toward her. Love triangle broken.
Hurrah! Now Zero gets ONE CHAPTER to be *the knight*. (And actually, I fear he's not even going to get that much since I got the feeling the manga was pretty much done with him after his big scene with Kaname.)
Zero could have accepted his feelings for Yuuki and moved on in ANY chapter of the manga after the time skip. There was no big event here in 92 that caused him to change his mind. Yuuki didn't suddenly prove herself to him or anything like that. He just changed his mind to change his mind. Why not make that happen sooner?
And this is the other part of the problem: If Zero's hatred for vampires was what kept the love triangle going, then Zero giving up his hatred was the move used to legitimize the other pairing.
Of all the characters in the manga, Zero has the most reason to dislike Kaname. But by having Zero reach out to Kaname (and in that gesture, essentially forgive him of his crimes), then all of us get to feel OK about a KanaYuuki ending because gosh! Zero is making his own decisions!
How naive and foolish. It would have been far more realistic for Zero to give up his hatred of vampires and have an unspoken tolerance for Kaname simply for Yuuki's sake. He didn't need to reach out to Kaname. Because Kaname's crime against Zero was too great for him to forgive (no one in Zero's position would ever forgive the person who destroyed his family), and because Kaname never asked for Zero's forgiveness, so it wasn't necessary for Zero to grant it.
So the mangaka should have just left it alone. It would have been kinder to Zero's character. But no. Instead Zero not only asks Kaname to fight with him (as a comrade), but he insists it's his own choice to protect Kaname and pushes him toward Yuuki.
Why make Zero go so far, if not for Zero's sake? Because all of this is essentially giving Kaname permission to live at the end of the series. (Can't have a happy, shippy ending without him.) If Kaname's biggest victim forgives him, then the character no longer needs redemption. There's nothing Kaname needs to make up for anymore. Aidou's dad is alive and Zero is making his own decisions!
As someone who wanted MORE from this series than pairings, and who wanted MORE from Zero than to just be the foil to a love triangle (the Kuran's lapdog), it is very, very depressing.
- #11
Even if you're a Zeki shipper,I don't really understand how you'd want a Zeki ending now.Do people really think it'd make the manga better?In these last few chapters Yuki didn't really seem to care much about Zero,and nothing at all about his feeling,and she has stuck with Kaname through it all and he was basically everything she has been thinking about,you really want her in one chapter switch to someone else?really?that would not be convincing at all and would possibly make the worst ending in history,if Zero and Yuuki were to happen,it should have happened before,not now.
But shippers really are the same in the end (well most) and this goes to both sides,they care more about their ship than the quality of the manga and it could ruin the manga in the end..
Clearly You haven't been reading the latest myanimelist VK threads.
Because In case you haven´t noticed the majority of Zeki fans ceased to exist, and became solely "Zero shippers". I would suggest you at least to read from the beginning this thread.
This is not about "caring about our ship more than the quality of manga" anymore, simply because, there is no quality at all, regardless of whom she ends up. All fans here regardless of being Zero/Zeki/Yume/Kaname seem to agree on that. Do you honestly think that Yuuki ending up with Zero would "ruin the manga at the end"? The manga is ruined for a long time, filled with illogical inconsistencies, null character development, bad executed plot and the only thing that didnt get lower and improved was the art. So in your perspective Yuuki ending up with Kaname makes a "good quality ending".
LOL. sorry, but, no. At this point even if Yuuki ended up with Aidou, nothing will raise the quality of this manga. It is filled with so many flaws, and its not really the characters fault but the one who made them that way, Hino Matsuri, who wasnt able to build a solid plot and ended up making just another generic shoujo.
Kaname "the illogical manipulative anti-hero", Zero "the emo lapdog", Yuuki "the useless brat".
In one thing I agree with you though: we all would like to see our favorite character with a happy end. Sometimes a happy end to a character is not synonymous of ending up with the heroine.
Go check my previous posts. Im supporting Yume, precisely because Im a Zero shipper. He deserves someone who loves him wholeheartedly, and that is why at least in that, I agree with you: she should stay with Kaname since she clearly refused Zero for the second time. I really don't want this to end up like Inuyasha where "I didn't chose. Let me stay with the one who didn't die".
In resume: If she ends up with Kaname I'll rage. If she ends up with Zero I'll fucking rage even more. Still, regardless of my rage, the low quality of this manga will remain till the end, because one single chapter could not fill the flaws that begun since chapter 49.
Still, we cannot blame Zeki shippers. They just want Zero to be happy and their perspective, Zero's happiness is staying at the only person he ever loved, and that is why I cannot oppose to that. He would be happy regardless of her loving him less than Kaname, he wouldn't mind. that actually pisses me off
- #12
inzaratha said:
See, I also thought him being able to stop being so angry was a personal accomplishment for him.
The purpose of forgiveness is not something you are giving to the other person - No, most people have a very poor understanding of forgiveness.
You forgive not for the other person at all really, at a deep level what being able to forgive gives you the ability to release that anger and move on with your life - it makes you be able to release the bond that is created with another person through hatred, which is the worst type of bond cause it keeps an attachment on your person with the person who has committed a grave crime or offense against you.
I think that only those of us who have had a horrible crime committed against them or have witnessed someone being freed from a bond of hatred by forgiving the other person can really understand it.
What Zero is doing here is NOT for Kaname - NO not at all - This is Zero being able to move on and not be angry ALL the time. Its Zero growing up. It has nothing to do with Kaname, it is Zero saying - I'm not going to be stuck in the past anymore since the past is the past - I'm moving on.
I really, really agree with your definition of forgiveness. Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself, not to the other person. That's why I want to see Zero's actions in the last chapter as personally liberating for him, I really do. And I do think on some level they are, but my problem is that I think it's only on a very superficial level. Enough to make us feel like Zero has just had a major breakthrough (when really the whole purpose of the speech was to give Yuuki a happy ending, not to truly evolve Zero as a character).
Part of the problem is that I think there wasn't enough build-up to Zero's forgiveness speech to make it seem natural, and not something the author was forcing onto the character. Characters either have a major change of heart because something big happens to them and it triggers a change in their thinking, or there's a slow build-up to it with lots of little things happening before they finally change their minds.
In Zero's case, Kaname didn't come to him and apologize, which would have been a major event that encouraged Zero to forgive him. Up until he got his memories taken away, Zero was helping Yuuki chase him down, so there wasn't gradual build-up to it either. Only a short amount of time has passed in the manga (a couple of weeks maybe?) since he found out that Kaname plotted for his family to die, and he didn't take the news all that well at the time. So there was no chance for him to gradually decide to forgive Kaname either. He's been gradually accepting vampires this whole time, but accepting vampires is not the same thing as forgiving Kaname.
I think the main reason why he forgave Kaname in this chapter has nothing to do with Zero's own feelings. It's because Kaname is going to die and poor Yuuki will be all alone! (God forbid she should have to stand on her own two feet for once in her life.) And Yuuki's happiness is more important than Zero's own feelings.
Most of what Zero said to Kaname had to do with Yuuki, in fact. The bit about him making his own choices was only tacked on at the very end of his speech.
And that's the other part of the problem: If the majority of the speech had been about Zero himself, and how he had come to this realization and was moving on, then yes, absolutely, I would agree with you that this was a decision he was making for himself and for his own good, and I would be at peace with the decision.
But almost everything he said was Yuuki, Yuuki, Yuuki: Kaname doesn't think he has a right to be with her, but his actions are hurting her, she will be sad if he's not around, so come protect the school for her sake, and BTW, Zero is doing this because he wants to. His speech ultimately had more to do with encouraging Kaname to live than it did with Zero's choice to move on from his hatred.
So that's why, to me, what Zero said was indeed more for Kaname's sake than for his own. Or should I say, for romance's sake than his own. If Kaname lives, then Yuuki ends up with a guy at the end of the manga, and that's what this manga truly cares about. (Obviously not its plot or characterization.)
Hmmmm. Good explanation - I now get that this is about how people are angry that once again character development is less of a priority than the romance. Sigh. I'm going to ignore Hino's bad writing here and focus on the fact that letting go of his hate, regardless of the reason, is good for Zero but yeah, I can understand people's disappointment now...
Unfortunately like Orulyon I can't rate this manga high either - even if Hino writes an ending I love it'd get a low score from me because the plot and character development has been ridiculous for the majority of this manga. I really hope Hino improves with her next manga because her art is incredibly beautiful and she creates interesting characters. Anyway, for people looking to read a vampire manga which is funny and entertaining with no irritating endless love triangles I recommend Chibi Vampire Karin. It has its flaws like any manga but I'd rate it over Vampire Knight any day of the week :)
- #13
In VK, the *vampire* part, Yuukis accendence came at the proposed time when a major plot device was introduced to bring back. The *knight* part was delayed far, far, far too late. How as a writer can you have such a flimsy story line as to allow the LT to continue for too long, as stated by numerous other posters here, to the point where Zeki shippers were left on tenterhooks until chapter 89 of 93 to finally be shot down with *that* scene. It's rediculous. If the LT had been affectively neutered during the time skip it would have been far easier to stomach for all involved and reading the rest would have been edible. As it is now, its like warm sour milk. Horrible to look at and even worse to digest and smell ...
As for Zero ... the mans been through enough in a short space of time. A woman he loved, was something he had always hated. His worst enemy, became his only source of survival. And to top it off, he now knows that the woman he loved can never be his (he bit Yuuki to regain his memories but I'll be damned if he didn't see more than just that). But the knight is always chivalrous and will always give himself up for the needs of others. Yuuki is lucky ... I would have stabbed her ... and so to I believe many others given similar circumstances.
As for the "lapdog" scenario ... how is he not? Forget points of view and opinions. Look at the cold hard facts. Lost his parents to vampires. Vampires released by Kaname ... Kaname knew of Yuukis past and strived to not wake her and left this responsibility to Zero during the day because he could not ... The story in the second arc is just convoluted and in disarray. Zero making his own choices is a Get out of Jail Free card played to make it appear he is moving on. It's a cheap plot device to apparently end his seething hatred of vampires ... More overly purebloods, but honestly I can't see it ... It wouldn't have happened this way and somehow I get the impression Hino knew this when she ran the LT too far beyond being acceptable.
93 better be long and cheery for all involved. That way we can scruntinise the storyline wholy rather than concluding in the last chapter that it was a complete waste of time ... which it still may be.l