Vampire Knight Chapter 92 Discussion

2rsa said:
obviouslygeeky said:
2rsa said:
Randomxxxx said:
I don't understand why people think this way. Just because Kaname loves Yuuki doesn't mean she can't move on after his death. Killing Kaname now is the best option for the manga

You are just thinking about Zero. We can not ignore Yuuki's feelings. As the heroine of the story she swore to save Kaname (Such a selfish heroine XD). What if she wouldn't succeed? I know many zekis hate her now but we still can't ignore her feelings.

Kaname can't live without Yuuki but want's to die cause he belives he wouldn't be able to bring her hapiness.

Zero finally decided to be true to his feeling and now puts Yuuki's hapiness before his.(I'm so proud *sob*).

oh,and the rest of your comment is just Zeki bitterness which is disrespectful to Yume fans.^__~



'disrespectful to YUME fans'. Sigh. Ugh. Comments like this remind me why the VK fandom is just so incredibly silly at times. Saying that Zero/Yuuki or Kaname/Yuuki is the 'better' ship not being disrespectful or rude, it is that person's personal preference they have a right to their opinion, whether it is popular or not. Calling people names and making personal attacks based on what a person ships, now that's disrespectful. There is ridiculous amount of bitterness in this fandom because people are passionate about ships, some of it is because trolls out there do resort to being horrible to other fans but a a huge amount of it is fans getting all worked up over anther person's opinion and then reacting. So many times I've either seen a Yume or Zeki fan stating why they love their ship and then the other side being oversensitive getting offended for no good reason.



There is a very thin line between sharing opinions and bashing characters or ships which is just disrespectful. (T_T)

I've seen a lot of bashings here recently and the bitterness wasn't from my side if you actually paid attention.



The thing is though, there actually isn't anything truly wrong with either character or ship bashing. These are characters, they are NOT REAL PEOPLE, the wonderful thing is you cannot offend people who do not exist!

Fans just get offended on behalf of these fictional beings because they care about them so much. There is nothing wrong with really adoring characters but people also need to realize there is nothing wrong with other people disliking or even hating characters that they adore. Zero is my favorite is the series but I don't get worked up over people saying they hate him, he can't be everyone's cup of tea, a character isn't going to appeal to everyone. I get things like 'keep calm and hate Zero' when I go on tumblr and my reaction is to 'ignore' it and focus on the positive posts about him. I think it would be disrespectful if Zero or Kaname haters went and said they hated his character on an appreciation forum thread or in a club for that character because that is meant to be a place for fans of the character and it's disrespectful to invade what is meant to be a safe space for fans to appreciate a character. This however, is a GENERAL reaction thread.

I think you need to realize at this stage it is very easy for Yume fans to be happy because they believe there ship is 'winning' while for Zeki fans it is naturally a bitter time - they need the time and space to vent, they are naturally angry and sad because they believe their ship is sunk. Beyond the shipping issues for some time fans in general have been frustrated with the flaws they see in VK's plot, the way Hino has dragged out the LT and the way she has portrayed Yuuki. When a storyline is active is is quite normal to find some level of bitterness in the fandom because not everyone can be happy - people go to forums  not just to fangirl over what they love, it's also to vent about what they dislike. I used to be really into the Harry Potter fandom and they even had specific venom/hate forum threads for characters so people could vent, you just didn't venture there (unless you were a crazy troll haha) if you were a fan of the character. In every fandom there is always going to be bitterness in fandom, it's the internets. There has been some really nasty behavior in the VK fandom, like fans threatening other fans with death threads and going on extreme personal attacks, which is just plain wrong. People need take a chill pill and remember that as much as we love the world of VK and the character it's just a work of fiction - if Hino delivers some badly written ending then I'm going to be pretty darn annoyed that I spent years reading this manga but it's not the end of the world. No matter how this manga ends I have really enjoyed her beautiful art work and even if she writes an unworthy ending for them I will still adore the characters.

Anyway, not to be rude but please consider this: someone mentions they think Zeki would be better than Yume while stating they do not see themselves a shipper, they are speaking about what makes sense to them in terms of the story. You decide to LABEL them as a 'bitter shipper' and put down their opinion down based on who you think they ship. Sometimes you've got own up and realize that you aren't being respectful of others and people are going to treat you the way you treat them.

Zero finally got his memory back? by getting Yuuki's blood.  Kaname ran away again when Zero came to duel? him.  Yuuki with Aidou.



So next ch. will be final?

inzaratha said:
See,  I also thought him being able to stop being so angry was a personal accomplishment for him.   

The purpose of forgiveness is not something you are giving to the other person -  No, most people have a very poor understanding of forgiveness.   

You forgive not for the other person at all really, at a deep level what being able to forgive gives you the ability to release that anger and move on with your life - it makes you be able to release the bond that is created with another person through hatred,  which is the worst type of bond cause it keeps an attachment on your person with the person who has committed a grave crime or offense against you.



I think that only those of us who have had a horrible crime committed against them or have witnessed someone being freed from a bond of hatred by forgiving the other person can really understand it.



What Zero is doing here is NOT for Kaname -  NO not at all - This is Zero being able to move on and not be angry ALL the time.    Its  Zero growing up.   It has nothing to do with Kaname,  it is Zero saying - I'm not going to be stuck in the past anymore since the past is the past - I'm moving on.



I really, really agree with your definition of forgiveness.  Forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself, not to the other person.  That's why I want to see Zero's actions in the last chapter as personally liberating for him, I really do.  And I do think on some level they are, but my problem is that I think it's only on a very superficial level.  Enough to make us feel like Zero has just had a major breakthrough (when really the whole purpose of the speech was to give Yuuki a happy ending, not to truly evolve Zero as a character).



Part of the problem is that I think there wasn't enough build-up to Zero's forgiveness speech to make it seem natural, and not something the author was forcing onto the character.  Characters either have a major change of heart because something big happens to them and it triggers a change in their thinking, or there's a slow build-up to it with lots of little things happening before they finally change their minds.



In Zero's case, Kaname didn't come to him and apologize, which would have been a major event that encouraged Zero to forgive him.  Up until he got his memories taken away, Zero was helping Yuuki chase him down, so there wasn't gradual build-up to it either.  Only a short amount of time has passed in the manga (a couple of weeks maybe?) since he found out that Kaname plotted for his family to die, and he didn't take the news all that well at the time.  So there was no chance for him to gradually decide to forgive Kaname either.  He's been gradually accepting vampires this whole time, but accepting vampires is not the same thing as forgiving Kaname.



I think the main reason why he forgave Kaname in this chapter has nothing to do with Zero's own feelings.  It's because Kaname is going to die and poor Yuuki will be all alone!  (God forbid she should have to stand on her own two feet for once in her life.)  And Yuuki's happiness is more important than Zero's own feelings.



Most of what Zero said to Kaname had to do with Yuuki, in fact.  The bit about him making his own choices was only tacked on at the very end of his speech.



And that's the other part of the problem: If the majority of the speech had been about Zero himself, and how he had come to this realization and was moving on, then yes, absolutely, I would agree with you that this was a decision he was making for himself and for his own good, and I would be at peace with the decision.



But almost everything he said was Yuuki, Yuuki, Yuuki:  Kaname doesn't think he has a right to be with her, but his actions are hurting her, she will be sad if he's not around, so come protect the school for her sake, and BTW, Zero is doing this because he wants to.  His speech ultimately had more to do with encouraging Kaname to live than it did with Zero's choice to move on from his hatred.



So that's why, to me, what Zero said was indeed more for Kaname's sake than for his own.  Or should I say, for romance's sake than his own.  If Kaname lives, then Yuuki ends up with a guy at the end of the manga, and that's what this manga truly cares about.  (Obviously not its plot or characterization.)

2rsa said:
Haha,I wish I could buy them all but there are no such things where I come from. T_T

Hino-sensei can not please both sides.She thought she could but her plan backfired.I feel a little sorry for her cause she is very talented. XD



In the first half before Yuuki regained her memories it wasn't clear who she'll end up with. She liked Kaname, Kaname seemed to reciprocate, and Zero just watched them silently from a distance. Back then it wasn't clear what Kaname's true intentions were, so there was the possibility that he would turn out to be the main villain and Yuuki gets over him and starts noticing Zero.



However, after Yuuki regained her memories, Kaname and she shared their first kiss, Yuuki decided to leave with him, started living with him and the main villain turned out to be someone else who Kaname opposes, it was clear that the manga was going the Kaname/Yuuki route. This what Hino had planned from the begining, even before the first chapter of VK was published. I doubt it would've changed her mind how popular Zero or Zeki was outside Japan.



The problem, putting Yume vs. Zeki aside, is that after the Shizuka arc and the manga obviously going the Kaname/Yuuki route, Zero was relegated to just a foil for the love triangle like I have mentioned in my earlier post. IMO, if Hino had ended the love-triangle and Zero's hatred much earlier, then Zero would've considered better options for his life, and maybe had a chance at romance with another girl. Manga that had characters with similar issues to Zero like Fullmetal Alchemist and Ayashi no Ceres did that and the plot and character development ended up being much more satisfactory.



Anyway, both the Yume and Zeki fans seem to agree that the plot is a mess and there's little chance that the ending will save it, so let's just hope that our favorite characters will survive.

2rsa said:
Randomxxxx said:
I don't understand why people think this way. Just because Kaname loves Yuuki doesn't mean she can't move on after his death. Killing Kaname now is the best option for the manga

You are just thinking about Zero. We can not ignore Yuuki's feelings. As the heroine of the story she swore to save Kaname (Such a selfish heroine XD). What if she wouldn't succeed? I know many zekis hate her now but we still can't ignore her feelings.

Kaname can't live without Yuuki but want's to die cause he belives he wouldn't be able to bring her hapiness.

Zero finally decided to be true to his feeling and now puts Yuuki's hapiness before his.(I'm so proud *sob*).

oh,and the rest of your comment is just Zeki bitterness which is disrespectful to Yume fans.^__~



'disrespectful to YUME fans'. Sigh. Ugh. Comments like this remind me why the VK fandom is just so incredibly silly at times. Saying that Zero/Yuuki or Kaname/Yuuki is the 'better' ship not being disrespectful or rude, it is that person's personal preference they have a right to their opinion, whether it is popular or not. Calling people names and making personal attacks based on what a person ships, now that's disrespectful. There is ridiculous amount of bitterness in this fandom because people are passionate about ships, some of it is because trolls out there do resort to being horrible to other fans but a a huge amount of it is fans getting all worked up over anther person's opinion and then reacting. So many times I've either seen a Yume or Zeki fan stating why they love their ship and then the other side being oversensitive getting offended for no good reason.

Anyway, I definitely do not think that Hino always intended for the ending to be Yume, if it ends up that way I think that it will be because she decided to cave into giving her Japanese fans what they wanted because as so many people pointed out, if Yume was always intended there is no reason to have the second  arc because Yuuki at that point had already chosen Kaname and left Zero, the story could of ended there. I think Hino did have an ending planned from the moment she started the manga, but what a writer plans from the beginning is not always what ends up happening because the story may organically develop into something else or editors may what the author to move in another direction.

Kaname and Yuuki have always had a connection but it is very different Yuuki and Zero's connection. Zeki's bond blossomed over time, Kaname and Yuuki were destined for each other. Kaname is the person that Yuuki was born to love, Zero is the person that she couldn't help falling in love with. Look at the kisses in the manga. The first is between Kaname and Yuuki, a transforming kiss drenched in blood, it is both a kiss of death and life, she both finds and loses herself. The kiss between Zero and Yuuki that follows to me was the same as a man who says goodbye to his beloved and kisses her dead lips before burying her. The next time Yuuki kisses Kaname is when she tries to convince to let her fight by drawing Artemis against him and then when Artemis fails her and she can't use force against him she uses a kiss to reassure him instead - this kiss does have passion but also desperation & emotional manipulation. The kiss between Zero and Yuuki at the ball is the one where we actually get to the see the most of Yuuki's thoughts, which are hidden from us in the other kisses - this is Yuuki admitting that Zero is actually the person that she would of fallen for in a world were she was not a vampire, Kaname is only her adored brother in this world, she has no romantic feelings for him. What has been standing in the way of Zeki is NOT Kaname but the fact that Yuuki is a vampire and Zero is a hunter, all of Yuuki's thoughts when she is dancing and then kissing Zero clearly show this. If Zeki does by some long shot end up working out then I don't believe it will be because he is her second choice, I feel like he has always been her first choice but she isn't allowed that choice because she is a Kuran. Of course Yuuki is going to try and save Kaname,  for chapters now her intent to save him (from himself if need be) has been clear.

There have been a few preview images that have been released and while there is a colored one that is pro-Yume I feel like the black and white is pro-Zeki. There is a panel in the page which gives the illusion that it is split in two and Yuuki is on Zero's side of the panel, behind them are Cain and Ruka (a couple) and Kaname is on the other side with the night class. Yuuki is in between them and it looks to me like she is holding Zero's hand with one of her hands while Kaname's hand is being held by either Zero or Yuuki (I suspect Yuuki because it is like she is each taking them by the hand the bringing them together but the angle is kind of odd). I've always thought one of the most visually interesting points in the series was Yuuki cutting her hair plus the fact she is wearing the same uniform as Zero while the rest of the vampires including Kaname wear the night class uniform. Visually Yuuki is not one of them and her appearance most resembles when she was a human, and this Yuuki wants to be with Zero not Kaname.

I still think the most predictable ending for the series is Yuuki saves Kaname and Zero stands aside or dies saving them. There is however, either thanks to Hino's trolling or her planning, signs that it could still end in Zeki. Hino could write either ship and have it work because she has built up each ship. Plus it's very possible Hino may go epically tragic and not have it end happily for either ship! So many people are acting like we already know the end but until the final chapter is released anything could happen :)

Ana93 said:
Raven_Shinobi said:
Yeah, the main storyline is a mess, but Kaname and Yuuki ending up together had been in the cards ever since the begining.



With all due respect, I must disagree.  For this particular manga, I don't think you can make the argument that the main storyline is a mess, but a certain pairing was planned out from the beginning.



In VK, the plot and the Love Triangle are totally interwoven into one another.  In fact, the mangaka favored the LT above the plot.  If there were some direction, some forethought put into one side of the story (whether the romance or the main plot), it would have in turn improved the other side of the story.  



And overall, I think if the general readership had a sense that ANY part of the manga was actually planned, fans would be a lot less disappointed than they are now.



As things stand now, people are confused, and were caught off-guard with the way things developed (plot and romance-wise), and it doesn't matter WHICH side of the shipping line you stand on.  That's not supposed to happen in a good story.



On the romance side, is there anyone who could have predicted sex would happen in 89?  I don't mean sex happening between Yuuki and Kaname in general, if they are the manga's endgame couple, sex is not unexpected, but sex happening in that particular chapter?  If anyone tries to say they expected Yuuki x Kaname sex in 89 before any of the spoilers came out, I'll call them a liar.



I think there's strong indications that Hino never knew which pairing she wanted until the last minute and she was forced to pick one.



I say this because of little things and big things.  One of the little things I noticed was in the preview for VK that appeared in MeriPuri.  The entire preview was Yuuki and Zero talking.  There was no mention of Kaname whatsoever.  If Kaname was absolutely supposed to be the lead male from the beginning, then why was he not in the preview?  As lead male, he'd be one of the selling points of the manga, and therefore should have been in that preview, no?



One of the big things I noticed, probably the biggest, in fact, was that Zero was essentially the main character of the first arc.  In fact, Hino herself joked about it in one of her side notes wondering who her main character was, Zero or Yuuki.  If Zero's role in the story was always supposed to be merely the Knight, the guy who makes it so the heroine could end up with the guy she really loves, then why did he get a starring role in the first half of the story?  There was no point in building up Zero to that degree if he wasn't a legitimate contender for male lead.



Incidentally, I think this is why he's being called "the Kuran's lapdog."  His role in the story has ended up being no more than that, I'm sorry to say.  If Hino had put Kaname and Yuuki together but let Zero achieve some well-defined major goal, something he'd been working toward for a long time, then that would've been great.  He'd be his own person, with his own storyline, and his own set of concerns.  Not someone who is a prop for someone else's storyline (Yuuki ending up with Kaname).  So "the Kuran's lapdog" it is.



Edit: And let me just say, I think Zero letting go of his hatred is nice from a character development standpoint, but no, it does not count as "achieving a goal."  Anything a character desires, works toward, and accomplishes is achieving a goal.  "Making Yuuki happy" is, unfortunately, the only thing that qualifies in Zero's case.

even though it ishis faut that he didnt take action before . i felt that he was being used by yuki as well as kaname

Randomxxxx said:




Zero has become the Kuran's lapdog. How the fuck can you forgive someone who ruined your life? Zero threw his self-respect and conscience out the window. Forget about yourself, but your parents? Your brother? Hino has been feeding us bullshit. Thank You Thank You, It's nice to know I'm not alone!! One more chapter and I can review this, Can NOT wait...  Hino, How is the belligerent f**k ?  Its like she doesn't even care, or she thinks her readers all have some sort of amnesia .. are you serious here? Nope nope I'm not gonna rant, I'll save it for the one rating!!

I is confused so whose child were those Kaname or Zero? the last chapter felt very compressed and confusing.