Vampire Knight Chapter 89 Discussion

Narutowolf77 said:
snipped You think I'm the one with the shipping glasses? I admit I have them but you're the same. I'd choose "But I'm a vampire." which is her usual cop-out when Zero has clearly shown he doesn't care about that anymore. Again the change of killing and make him human is a case of 'Kaname obsession' syndrome mixed with her immature idiocy as obviously he can't deserve death, no he should just become a human cause that makes total sense. Zero didn't draw the Bloody Rose on him either does this mean Zero loves Kaname? No, it doesn't as the party is supposed to be a neutral zone.



I assume the last bit is to excuse Kaname's taking advantage of her mental state. I never though that he read her mind to get that. Look at her reactions add to that what she has done to Zero and duh its obvious she's not going to be in a good mental state, so he would have to be a moron not to notice. And his great plan to help her decide who to love is what? To sleep with him, yeah cause this makes soooooo much sense.



"Yuuki is a bright, beautiful, strong young woman." I agree she could be all 3 unfortunately she's only 1 out of 3 at the moment.



Bright subtractors:

    -Erased Zero's memories of the human Yuuki to try and ease his pain

    -Accepts that Kaname has killed people as if its nothing big.

    -She tosses Zero's loyalty to her aside as if it means little

    -Goes to Kaname when her mind is completely unstable in ch. 89

    -Proceeds to sleep with Kaname



Strong subtractors:

     -Constantly runs back to Kaname to be coddled

     -If actually stands up to Kaname next chance she gets reverses it and caves to him

     -She easily shifts from wanting to stop Kaname back to obsession mode because he didn't happen to kill one person but has others.



Yuuki has shown signs of being able to grow up whenever she gets the h*ll away from Kaname. He is a poison to her as she will never mature with him there to constantly coddle her rather than to tell her when she does wrong or let her deal with the situations she causes.



And honestly you have no right to say anything about Zero fangirls since as far as I can see you're just as bad on the Kaname side.



You want to see how it should be done watch Blood+. Haji is what Kaname should be like and Saya is like what Yuuki should be like. I went into Blood+ wanting Kai (the Zero-ish guy) and Saya (the Yuuki-ish) to be together but by the end I was rooting for Saya to be with Haji (the much much much better Kaname). Haji doesn't coddle her and instead stands by her side and lets her make her own choices; He fights along side her rather than having her hide behind him; He doesn't manipulate people and situations around her to what he decides is in her best interest; He is a knight and a prince in one. You want 'true love' this is it as he knows she'll forget about him each time she has sleep yet he stays by her side each time.

ragingx said:
5+ chapters and story destroyed in 1 chapter...



Yuuki really needs to wake up and realize that Zero was (still barely clinging onto the two of them getting together) the better choice. He was always by her side loyally, defied the hunter lineage within him countless times, gave her his blood to quench her thirst, and even offered her his life, which she cruelly at this point refused to take yet what does she do? She takes memories that belong to the human Yuuki and Zero not her as well as running back to her obsession (Kaname). Honestly Zero was far better for her as when she was with him and away from Kaname she actually stood on her own feet (a little but still there) as opposed to Kaname where she's constantly coddled and told/suggested/manipulated into doing what Kaname deems good for her.  



There is no logic or reasoning to her running to Kaname and sleeping with him to make up her mind. Is she a whore, slut, or whatever? No but she's also not very bright and needs a lot of mental help.



I hate Kaname not for being with Yuuki but just because of his personality. He should have sent her away rather than indulging her insanity but like the idiot he is he took her in.



At this point I want Zero to use the Blood Rose to kill him in front of Yuuki and let her live with the consequences of what she caused to happen. I'll keep reading but by far this was a very poor decision on Hino's part.



I disagree with Zero being the better choice, Kaname has also done plenty for Yuuki as this chapter fully explained. He's thrown himself down in the dirt for her, pretending to kill someone to push her away so that she wouldn't be hurt by his actions. He wanted to protect her from the moment he laid eyes on her when she was born. It's also not what he "deems good for her" what Kaname does he does for her safety. She has also stood on her own feet in this chapter when she kissed Kaname and told him off for lying to her all this time, not to mention several chapters back when she yelled at him because she thought he did something to Ruka and when she took the artemis and left the manor. There's also the way Zero treated her in the past. All three of the main characters have flaws in the way that they treat each other (one of the things I like about this manga, it actually provides a human element rather than the perfection you find in other shoujo manga) I also disagree with him being her "obsession" if that's the case then Yuuki is Zero's "obsession" because the situation is no different.



As for there being no logical reasoning to her running to Kaname and sleeping with him to make up her mind. First of all she cares about Kaname this was established a long time ago in the manga and now she finds out he only pretended to kill Aido-dono  but that he plans to sacrifice himself naturally she is going to want to be with him, especially after being away from him for so long. As for her sleeping with him to make up her mind, those were Kaname's words, not her's and she IS Kaname's fiance as she reminded Zero 2-3 chapters back, how does sleeping with your fiance make you a slut or a whore?



I also don't get how you say Kaname should have sent Yuuki away. She's crying and clinging to him and is really emotional would you turn someone out like that? And it's not "insanity" she wants to be with Kaname right now and he wants to be with her, he loves her if you haven't figured that out already.

haha, that chick is love with her own brother, how disgusting

Im a Zeki shipper btw, love spurred from friendship!

Kaname_NA said:
Obviously he is slightly treating her as "his" in the few instances you see shes wearing cute dresses and high heels because he likes it , and likes her beautiful long hair, and she rebelled and cut off her hair when she was like "i love you so i must KILL YOU" xD



its not like hes trying to change her but she wants to do those little things that make him happy because that's what being in love is like



in large part, you can see he has her wrapped around his little finger and she is absolutely smitten by hiim and listens to almost everything he asks of her and will take his side/accept his opinions always  xD

And from a certain perspective I can take this as 'cherishing' her but at the same time he does need to understand that she is her own person and not his to decide things for, though I kinda do like long haired Yuuki more than shoulder length xD.



If she chooses to try to change herself to make him happy then this is one thing and can indeed be interpreted as a form of love/romance, sort like if I were to actually start fully shaving instead of leaving my goatee because my gf prefers it to be smooth. Though I would still say that she shouldn't take it too far and should still maintain things she likes, as in relationships you have gives and takes and acceptances.Its the way you put it before that made it sound like he was pushing her to be to his liking which I highly disagree with as I believe that each person should be themselves.



Well to a certain degree I do think this is true but I don't think this is really just his fault. Yuuki tends to get submissive around him mistaking this for how you are in love and he tends to want to indulge her and do things he thinks will make her happy. Do I personally like this type of relationship? Not even remotely but I'm willing to accept it as just one that I don't like and not insult it.

Damn, sex scene~! Never expected that happen

@ raging



I didn't say asians preferred Kaname it's probably a lot more even than western fans though. That's really cool you're a guy reading this that makes me happy to see a boy care so much about a shojo  :)))  Sorry I didn't mean to offend I'm just looking at the point of view from the mangaka who aims to please everyone and of course she loves Zero but she definitely cherishes this Kaname character she created and wants Yuuki to love and be with him "ultimately" (yuuki's word) :P



P.s. I want you to understand the manipulating/controlling aspect of this relationship



If you ever find feelings of "true love" that is more powerful than anything you've ever felt inside yourself, that it cannot even be compared and all your past loves will seem like they were nothing, you might find yourself understanding what it means to want to be their everything and give them anything that makes them happy/happier Because those little compromises just don't compare to a less happy partner. Kaname's requests were small little things -that weren't that hard- to comply with. Kinda like how Ino thought Sasuke liked girls with long hair ( I doubt he ever said that lol) so both of them grew their hair long. I think the KEY thing to this example is that both Ino and Sakura knew they had feelings for Sasuke, but they weren't ever sure what Sasuke felt for them, so they wanted to do whatever they could that might make Sasuke like them more! (reminds me of Yuuki, like the chapter she says "I'm still not even sure what you think of me")



That kind of mind blowing/life changing love happened to me only one time out of numerous "loves" so I guess I'm a bit fortunate that I know what it's like to want to change to what makes your lover happier(without really compromising yourself). I've never felt for anyone like I felt for this one person, it was a complete and utter state of being in love. The feelings just come from this purer higher place and the person just becomes your everything. You might be unsure if they like you the same way, you want them to like you more , or you don't want them to leave your side. I think in a way that's what Yuuki feels for Kaname, except she's all three!



I guess this feeling, to do whatever your lover wants can come from a very -clingy and desperate, full of doubt- love and you can definitely see this in the latest chapter when she won't let go of him. *she doesn't want him to leave her* . That welcomed "manipulation" is probably a side affect of a deep-seated wanting of someone to not leave you. So in a sense, the form of her love......clingy.. wanting..loneliness.. fearful, has sprung to the surface with chapter 89. And suddenly it becomes clear why she wanted to change the little things for him. She's been unsure of his true feelings for her this entire time. Her love has slowly morphed into these feelings and I truly hope things will work out for them :'( I don't like to see them both hurting like this.



I just had another thought... Zero liked Yuuki "just the way she was" and never needed her to change anything... but when she changed the Vampire aspect suddenly he found himself still longing for the human Yuuki. Kaname on the hand always knew about Yuuki's vampire self and when she changed he of course accepts this self of her, where's Zero rejected it. And the character development has shown Zero slowly lose himself to his feelings for who she is rather than what she is, but I think his feelings clung onto their past and what she once was to him.



When she entered his heart she found his feelings of love for the OLD her.. when he loses his memory he says "don't steal her from me" .. I think the her he's referring to might be the old her he cherished rather than the new her. Just a thought, dunno if it's the truth of not - Kaname loves the real her, Zero loves the old her. ? :) Trying to make sense of Yuuki's final destination. Also didn't Kaname ask one of the pure bloods to turn Yuuki human after he was done with sacrificing his heart? It could go this way and to that "neither of them remember each other"



but that would suck god? Yuuki would lose her memories a second time, that's too crazy. probably not gonna happen. I wrote alot >.> Oh yeah, just because Yuuki is doubtful of Kaname's feelings doesn't mean her fears are necessarily true. If I didn't believe Kaname felt for her what I think he does, that it was completely one sided on Yuuki's part, I wouldn't have stuck around for this long! :P

Aisein said:
Narutowolf77 said:
There would have been no point in taking all of Zero's memories as the reason she did it was so she wouldn't have to worry about him as it was his love for her that was starving Zero and making him close to falling to Level E. If she had taken all of his memories he would have been as helpless as a child just like she was completely helpless after her mother suppressed her memories and made her human and it would have defeated her purpose.



I don't see any reason why Zero can't move on and find someone else when he has a ton of people that care about him and would support him such as Maria, Kaien, Yagari, Kaito, and Yori to name a few as all of them have demonstrated concern and caring for Zero. In my opinion if he is not capable of moving on with so many people supporting him it would make him look pretty stupid and pathetic much akin to how Sasuke looked back in the first half of Naruto when happiness was staring him straight in the face and he ignored it. I think that his new purpose would have something to do with managing the hunter's association as the next president (if he doesn't recover his memories) or striving to make bring the vampire and human worlds together because its what the girl he loved would have wanted (if he does recover his memories), similar to how Kaien changed as his personality was once a lot like Zero's.



I thought that Zero would fall to Level E anyway? He never got to drink Shizuka's blood. All Yuki did was delay it with a temporary solution, then what?



The reason I said that it would've been better for Yuki to take "everything" is because it would give Zero more initiative to start over. Since only his memories of Yuki were taken away, it was basically only his happy memories that were taken. I might be wording this wrong but I can't seem to put it in a different way... *thinks harder*



But anyway, that same reason also accounts to why I don't think Zero would be successful in moving on from his past. Almost all his life he's been suffering and his only goal is to kill all the pure bloods. However, all the pure bloods have already made plans of their own and will die the way that THEY wish to die. Zero doesn't have any say in it. What will he think of himself? A failure? Someone who failed to get revenge for his family. And with the way he was acting to his classmates at the Academy, do you really think that he wants to move on? Do you really think that he wants to love someone? He's someone without any happy memories so why wouldn't he want to just kill himself once his "purpose" in life has been accomplished?



Also the last part of your post doesn't make sense. Why would Zero want to ever bring the vampires and humans together? Vampires made his life miserable, there's no way that that's gonna happen. Also you should already know that he doesn't want to be the Hunter Association president. He is disgusted with himself for being the very thing that he despises. He's a vampire. Yet, another reason that he wouldn't want to live longer than he has to. I'm totally in agreement with you. Not to mention as I've mentioned before this action of her's also sabotaged my secondary pairing for Zero since how can he be with Maria when he hates vampires?  Poor Kaien got a major intelligence downgrade too so all around negatives =.= though I truly do think he's going to break out of Yuuki's mind erase since I just think Zero has the will power and caring for Yuuki to do so.

I personally loved this chapter!

I have been rooting for Kaname and Yuuki from the very start because I do think they're supposed to be together, full stop. I think Zero is destined to be with someone else, someone who can give him what he deserves and Yuuki can't do that.

This chapter finally answered my prayers and confirmed that Kaname wasn't just a crazy vampire and that he was doing things for reasons, and I'm so glad he's back... So glad!

I guess the whole sex scene bit came as NO surprise. If I'm really honest I'd already presumed that they'd done it a long time ago been as though they were living together for over a year.



I hope the plot carries on this way. KANAME X YUUKI!



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