Vampire Knight Chapter 88 Discussion

kuranlover7891 said:
dann_anime said:
amaterasu888 said:
its clear to me that kaname is not really in love with yuuki, seems like he was in love with the vampire from his memories. so as a kaname fan i dont really care if he gets with yuuki or not. but one thing does seem to be clear to me, the way he treats yuuki is the way that she treats zero. and for all the zeki fans out there, i dont really like that if im a zero fan. i mean its like she runs the relationship. im a kaname fan but i like zero. i hope he ends up with someone else, i wouldnt want to be zero. the girl i love is constantly asking herself whether or not she like me...she always knew she was in love with kaname. the way she looks or used to look at kaname is the way that zero deserves to have someone look at him, not take away his memories because she is afraid of hurting him wtf its like pity or something.

i dont want kaname to die because he in my opinion is the only interesting character in the manga and id rather see him end up with yuuki, and zero end up with some hot vampire chick who is a better a woman than yuuki. hate to reference twilight but, kaname is obviously her edward and zero is obviously her jacob, and to all the zero fans out there...who wants to be somebodies jacob. zero can do better and deserves better.

and by the way, why do people hate kaname so much. with the exception of uchiha itachi, hes the dopest character ive ever seen. hes cool, calm and collected, and unselfish even though his methods may be dark in nature, but...he is a vampire, i mean what are we expecting. this is a manga about vampires not angels  





OMG you've  read my thoughts!!!!!!



yes it is what I wanted to say even ,the twilight example!!!!



and kaname is the only reason I'm reading this Manga ,if he dies I will be so sad!!!

I mean from the very beginning Kaname is throwing his life for the sake of Yuki...and she is not aware of it which makes me hate her a bitt..do you remember when Kaname asked Yuki and she said she wants a new beginning ...he is doing this for her ..I mean the real one who is in misery is Kaname  ...I totally agree he is really  the king he is the Vampire knight





My exact thoughts, except the part that I think kaname loves yuuki but still obssessed with his first love



My exact thought too but I think Kaname really loves Yuuki

You could see  http://mangafox.me/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c061/10.html



This is conversation before he left her.

I think he fear he will lose his loved one again and now, he wants her to hate him so she will not be sad when he die

its clear to me that kaname is not really in love with yuuki, seems like he was in love with the vampire from his memories. so as a kaname fan i dont really care if he gets with yuuki or not. but one thing does seem to be clear to me, the way he treats yuuki is the way that she treats zero. and for all the zeki fans out there, i dont really like that if im a zero fan. i mean its like she runs the relationship. im a kaname fan but i like zero. i hope he ends up with someone else, i wouldnt want to be zero. the girl i love is constantly asking herself whether or not she like me...she always knew she was in love with kaname. the way she looks or used to look at kaname is the way that zero deserves to have someone look at him, not take away his memories because she is afraid of hurting him wtf its like pity or something.

i dont want kaname to die because he in my opinion is the only interesting character in the manga and id rather see him end up with yuuki, and zero end up with some hot vampire chick who is a better a woman than yuuki. hate to reference twilight but, kaname is obviously her edward and zero is obviously her jacob, and to all the zero fans out there...who wants to be somebodies jacob. zero can do better and deserves better.

and by the way, why do people hate kaname so much. with the exception of uchiha itachi, hes the dopest character ive ever seen. hes cool, calm and collected, and unselfish even though his methods may be dark in nature, but...he is a vampire, i mean what are we expecting. this is a manga about vampires not angels

underthesamesky said:


I'll let you finish your post since you said you'd type up more later, I just wanted to point out that the one line you're citing from Yuuki is actually a mistranslation and was translated differently in the official volumes by Viz Media. Yuuki isn't referring to her feelings but Kaname's feelings: she says that she's not even sure he likes her, and then she corrects herself and says that he does like her but there are other feelings mixing together. Then she says she wants to start over and examine him more closely. ^^ So, she still hasn't mentioned her feelings for Kaname in this arc.



lol no one's arguing, the LT is one of the main components of the plot and we're discussing it civilly while also respecting each other's opinion. If you think our tone is argumentative, you should venture out to the Vampire Knight section at tumblr or MangaFox and take a look. :P People get nasty there o_O Like, you have no idea lol. I'm actually surprised by how tame it is here.



Also, my posts are usually always walls of text even when they're not about anything controversial xD I just type a lot. I can't speak for anyone else who might have had a long post recently though.



Thanks for correcting me on that also rather than finishing my post on here I think I'm going to finish my KanaYuu essay and post a link to it when I get it up or I would REALLY have a wall of text going XD



And actually the VK section on Mangafox is pretty tame, but I think it used to be bad because there is a topic that says threads and posts needing moderation.



Ah btw I noticed that there isn't an actual topic on MAL for discussion/debate on the VK LT (well there are two that sort of reply but the last posts in both are over two months old so we obviously can't use them) but do you think someone should make one because I'd like to be able to discuss and debate my OTP without straying too far off topic or making a Mangafox account that I'd probably never use again after VK ends XD

I'll just crosspost my thoughts here-



After reading the chapter, my thoughts are in a jumble as to how the story might pan out. I might well be completely wrong but…





WILL THERE BE A NEW FURNACE



We need a pureblood for a new furnace. If Yuuki can be discounted as far too unlikely a candidate, we have Isaya and Kaname barring latecomers.



It seems that Isaya wants to die. He is willing to either turn Yuuki human or become the new parent, replacing Kaname in both scenarios. However, if he were to die, then how does this resolve the long running issue of purebloods and their eventual desire to commit suicide? Is it okay if their suicides are somehow 'meaningful'? Can a suicide ever be meaningful? Clearly I have a strong problem with ending on yet another pureblood suicide...recall that Juri's death was incredibly bloody and horrifying. Isaya's fate would mirror the fate of all purebloods. The goal in this story is NOT to have them all die, because they have a special mandate in leading the vampire cohort. The goal is to break the pureblood curse.



Same applies to Kaname. Also the trajectory for Kaname becoming the new parent has been far too predictable. I think the fandom divide on Kaname is whether he should be punished or redeemed as a character. Personally I don't think he'll be unambiguously dealt either hand. Kaname is too loved by Hino to be slated by her. In some people's eyes (including mine) Kaname will always be a sympathetic character. His redemption should not come in the form of a furnace functioning to create more war weaponry, counterproductive to the overarching theme of peaceful co-existence. I would much rather him die a true death as a martyr - holding staunchly to his convictions, misguided as they are.



I agree with everyone saying how Yuuki's plan to turn him human will inevitably fail. It's desperately futile, she's just trying everything in her own power to save him. That's pretty heartbreaking.



So I guess my point is that perhaps there's a possibility that the furnace ends with the HW dissipating. We don't need weapons in peace, even as deterrents because it adds to the probability that the feud would begin all over again.



WILL ANYONE TURN HUMAN



I share the same feelings as a lot of people about the ineffectuality of turning someone human again (only to have them revert back in the future, probably). I suppose there could be a way for this to happen without driving the human!vampire insane when they start to recall things if the memories were not properly suppressed in the first place. So say if Yuuki failed to take Zero's memories and then someone turned him human, he may be a-okay as a human.



However, I feel like this would still be just recycling an old plot device, plain lazy writing. If either Zero or Yuuki became human, who would lead the hunter's association/the vampire cohort if Kaname is dead? Was all that material hyping Zero as a successor to the HA and Yuuki as the unconventional pureblood princess moot, mere fanservice? What happened to 'embracing the vampire in you'? How can Zero and Yuuki help facilitate peaceful co-existence is one or both are human?



Hence, I suspect this is just a stupid red herring and no one will turn human. As cute as anaemic Zero & Yuuki meeting 'for the first time' would be!



WHAT'S MISSING

- More explanation on Adiou-dono death/illusion (can't let this go seriously lol just want Aidou to get a happy ending!  Personally I'd love for this be in Kaname's favour, because I don't want him to die hated by all the vampires. )



- Zero biting Yuuki  (*whispers* please be saving this for the last chapter and Zeki endgame)



Is it just me or does Zero STILL have no idea that Yuuki has the hots for him? And only a bite would confirm it for him? Because he's oddly dismissive when she pretty much confesses to him in this chapter lol! He probably thinks she bit him to trick him closer so she could use the bracelet, not that she wants him or something /sigh. lol at how he wanted to focus on Kaname's conversation with Isaya and all Yuuki wanted to talk about was dancing with him that night LOLOLOL and fantasising about aggressively nursing a wounded complacent Zero-sempai LOL IM DONE. DEAD FROM ALL THIS GOODBYE

Orulyon said:


What I never understood (and Im open to explanations!) is why in one chapter long time ago Kaname was talking to "dead" Rido and saying "While Im alive you can never die". or something like that. I still cant get why Rido´s "ghost" haunts Kaname.





I think it has something to do with the fact that Rido used his blood when he awakened Kaname (along with the life force of Yuuki's original brother) it could be that because of that he has a small part of Rido inside of him.

Option A: Zero forgets Yuuki. Yuuki Dies. Kaname lives and becomes lover friends with Zero.





I hate Yuki, If she dies though I might forgive her stupid actions.



This chapter had giving me hopes I started to lose!



Anyway I always thought that Kaname would die in the end although he is my hero and he is the only reason I despratly still reading this manga.



This chapter made me think about things I never thought I might even consider... Kaname turning into human... Really?!



Also I never thought that there was an option that Yuki might actually die and not Kaname.



Wondering what will happen to poor Zero... He is just as miserable as Kaname :(

amaterasu888 said:
dann_anime thank you for being one of the few people who appreciate kaname and his sacrifice.

yuuki is obviously not planning on being with zero...

i mean if i wanted to be with someone i wouldn't erase their memories.

IMO she either wants to die or be with kaname, thats not the way you treat someone you want to be with (in reference to zero). and if she does want to be with him, then...i wouldn't want to be zero because its almost like she sees him as a little brother or something, you know, someone she has to take care of. its like she doesn't respect him as a man.

kaname is the bad ass of this show and is playing his role to perfection. he is the most powerful vampire and he is acting like it. all of the seemingly selfish things he has done so far have been for selfless reasons.





IMO the only people who have a gripe with kaname are zero and  people who like him. and aido. time will tell what happened with aido's father. but Kaname is completely wrong for manipulating zero as much as i like kaname zero deserves some justice, this guy has been done completely wrong, by kaname and yuuki. zero deserves to live.

i honestly hope none main three characters die, i think they all deserve happy endings, they've all been through alot.

yuuki for example; your uncle kills your dad and wants to either molest you or kill you...and i dont know which is worse. you have to live practically in an underground bunker your whole life then have your memories manipulated by your mother. then the only person who is close to you hates vampires, which you happen to be...and not only are you a vampire, you're the worst kind of vampire to the person you are close to. the man you admire and are in love with(according to her own words) is a murdering liar, but he was honest about it lol eventually. this guy also doesnt love you enough to make you his first priority and instead chooses to kill himself instead of stay with you. i hope she has a happy ending

zero; this guy...your parents were murdered by a pureblood. your twin brother who you loved was happy about this...

this same brother is weak because you ate a portion of him in the womb and his life sucks because of it. now when you get older you have to finish the job and eat the rest of him...(thats great) then the woman you love turns out to be the very thing you hate and you have to watch her go off with another man oh and by the way this man who She Loves is the man who was responsible for your parents murder(indirectly) and lets not forget that the woman who killed your parents turned you into a vampire. and lets cap it off. just when you think the woman you love loves you back. NOPE i kissed you but sorry im erasing your memories so i can go after the guy that you hate who i said i was in love with and used to live with and was engaged too...

yeah...i hope he has a happy ending

Kuran Kaname

-he deserves a happy ending...because hes a bad ass among bad asses and name a character in any anime/manga anywhere that is cooler than this guy. to be as powerful as he is he is extremely considerate and merciful in the way he deals with the majority of people. i mean he pointed his hand to rido(who is a pureblood) and blew him up into a thousand pieces, who is going to challenge this guy. has he abused his power...yeah. but he could've been a lot worse. the love his life sacrificed herself and left him alone and it seemed that it hurt him so much that he wanted to sleep forever. then his own family resurrected him by killing a baby...(yeah) and then killed the family that he was resurrected into. then he realizes that he cant kill  this guy even though he can blow him up into a thousand pieces. so yeah he creates someone who can in zero, because he wanted to protect yuuki. his methods for this was wrong but zero was so young i dont think he had any other choice. he put zero and yuuki together on purpose and made zero strong on purpose. and now rido is dead and yeah kaname has to deal with the consequences, but i dont think he deserves to die. i just think zero should beat him to within an inch of his life and yuuki should stop him lol













hank you for Understanding Kaname I mean you are right....

but there is something people are forgetting . the Monster inside of Kaname ,that Rido sealed...and why Rido wanted to awake kaname?? I think the awakening of kaname poses  many  questions.



and one more thing I think Kaname was sticking to his plan that he had from the beginning (he hasitated   ...maybe He wanted sometime to spend with yuki..)

as Shizuka Hio told him he will have a dark future ,which he knows about....maybe he killed Aido's father  to show yuki he is bad dunno!? maybe....I mean do you remember there is a chapter when he tell her :I am bad you should hate me ,or something like that....



and again yes Kaname is sooooooooooooooooo cool I mean can't add anything your description said it all^^

Don't count your chickens before they hatch, for one while Yuuki may care for Zero romantically but  she also seems to still care for Kaname romantically (I haven't seen any evidence to suggest otherwise), and we still don't know the rest of the sentence started in chapter 87 "The boy I want to cherish...I love him. But I..." we still don't know what the rest of "But I..." is (could be "But I...love Kaname more", "But I...need to save Kaname", "But I... belong with Kaname" etc. Personally I hope for the first one), all we know is that it pertains to Kaname since it shows Yuuki's mask falling off right when she sees him meaning she knows exactly how she feels for both boys now. Also I don't think she'd be saying the only way to stop Kaname is to turn him human if she didn't still hold some feelings for him, I actually interpret this line as her saying "I can't bring myself to kill him so there's no other choice".



Although you could argue that because she refers to him as "Kaname-oniisan" that her feelings are of brother and sister however I see a lot of holes in this as this is one of things she called him as in the past before she finally started calling him Kaname, also I've only seen one translation of the chapter so far and I would like to see another one or have someone actually translate the kanji from the original for me before I really trust it since there was a major difference in two translations from chapter 87 (one said "fondness" and the other said "I love him"). Also I don't think Yuuki's speculation speech exactly gives points to Zeki (and I say this from a completely non-biased standpoint) for one it's almost like Yuuki saying the only way for them to be together is in an alternate world and for another Zero crushed that idea by saying that "In the first place if we were humans we would not have any links" meaning they probably wouldn't fall in love because they wouldn't have anything connecting them (which I can see considering they don't really have much in common), that's just the way I interpret this (and please trust me even though I'm a KanaYuuki fan I try to interpret Zeki scenes from a non-biased standpoint - especially now that I no longer HATE Zero after I vented all my rage in a old forum post, although I still don't necessarily LIKE him and I'm a few points short of neutral).



I think that Yuuki feels romantic love for both Kaname and Zero but I do think that your bias against Zero perhaps prevents you from seeing the manga's focus at the moment is Yuuki's feelings for Zero, and I think these feelings are currently stronger than her feelings for Kaname. When Yuuki talks about being a human I think it's very clear that in that if she was a human not a vampire she would regard Kaname just as a brother and that Zero is the one she would be interested in not Kaname. For pure blood vampire incest is ok/normal but for humans it is not which is why I think in that scenario if Yuuki was a human and did not remember being a vampire than her feelings for Kaname would be normal sibling love not romantic love.

As for Zero crushing the notion that they would of never fallen in love in an alternate world, I don't take that as being crushing for Zeki in any way, it's just typical Zero behavior - it would most likely be just as Yuuki says it would be. If Hino went for a scenario where Kaname somehow heroically dies and Yuuki and Zero become humans (or all 3 of them become humans) I can imagine the final scenes/chapter playing out in a scene just as Yuuki imagined.

Regardless of who lives or dies or what the end pairing is (there might not even be an end pairing if it ends in tragedy) I hope that Hino does justice to both Zero and Kaname's characters arcs so that fans can at least be happy with that aspect even if they are disappointed with their ship not 'winning'.