Vampire Knight Chapter 87 Discussion
- Thread starter AkilaPc
- Start date
- #67
I didn't mean to come off so harsh on my statement of Kaname, I guess I was taking out my anger on prior discussions I had with other individuals on this matter on different forums, here.
All in all, I believe there are very negative aspects about how the characterization of Kaname and Zero were handled. Zero being nihilistic and Kaname being manipulative and ominous.
But first to start with the positive aspects.
I have never disliked Kaname, however that does not go to say I favor him either. At the start of Kaname's life (before he slept for an eternity) he was the kind vampire that did not want the life of humans but wanted to better the life of humans. He constantly gave them his blood to cure them and aid them, in turn for a little blood he would consume from them as nourishment to survive. Once the humans found out, they overlooked the good they received and banished him for the "monster" he was. He felt abandoned and lost all sense of purpose in life, casting himself off, that was until he met "her" the ancestress. She began to return purpose to his life and rid the erratic conditions of vampires at the time. She even taught him love.
I admired Kaname for that. He completes his purpose of returning order to the world.
However, when he reawakens, I think partially due to his long life, to meet and satisfy the burdens the ancestress placed on him, he begins to manipulate his way to reaching end's meet:
- So far, he has killed Aidou's father for reasons still unknown.
- He causes others, like pacificist Chairman Cross to deliver an almost fatal blow to little bat boy pureblood, even though he knows how much Cross dislikes killing anything.
- He accelerates his "grand plans" when finding out about the vampire hunter twins, releasing shizuka to hunt and murder his family. I feel this was unjustified, even if it was necessary in creating the perfect weapon.
- Kaname's wishes of the new world he envisions is being imposed on both races.
- The constant manipulating of zero and yuuki's feelings (this is arguable, since we as readers cannot distinguish whether yuuki truly loves kaname despite who he is, she is still shaky of the idea, or she feels it his her duty to uphold the person who protected her). As well as Ruka.
- He FEASTS on Yuuki when she runs off and almost drinks on Zero's blood to punish her (Here)
What I see now, is depending on the way Hino-sensei writes this manga, either Kaname will continue to cause more destruction hurting others around him to uphold his goal (again look at the cost for the "great good" he may be seeking) and ultimately die with much damage inflicted. Or Kaname will die a "hero" death, saving the race from Sara's plans and ridding the world of purebloods and domination over each other, in end making the world a better place.
True this motive is arguably respectable, but still some innocence is definitely shed, and to me I feel that Kaname has already lived such a long life, experienced some happiness, and to me I feel that gives Zero more reason to find happiness in Yuuki.
It is true that Kaname does treat her with kindness, but that is because I believe she fills his life with hope again and he no longer despairs when she is around. So he too would like to see her smile.
As for Zero, I have to agree many of his actions have been quite demeaning to Yuuki. Pre-vampire Yuuki, Zero's personality has always been cold, though I never believed him to be mean to Yuuki. He has always treated her in the best way he knew.
Post-awakening, the true reason he casts her off as an enemy is: 1) He struggles with how he feels towards purebloods for reasons obviously known and with the recent death of his brother he lashes out towards Yuuki 2) He later admits that if Yuuki was happy with Kaname, he'd happily let her go, and I think the only way he could detach such a compassionate individual like Yuuki was to make her believe that he hated her to the very bones.
I'm looking forward to discussing VK more with you in the future :)
- #68
NOOO..no no no no nooooo :( just whyy did this chapter ended like this >_< .. zero open your eyes shis just playing with youuu >_< ..
i love zeros character and i like kaname too, and i think that kaname and yuki are good together, and zero deserves a better girl than yuki, after she did leave him cause of kaname..and now his just secound choice >_< .. whats wrong with the managaka if the anime ends with zero x yuki im gona shoot my self..lol
im just saying zero deserves someone better..and yuki x kaname is the best couple..
I agree, Yuuki and Kaname are a better couple because it's quite visible that their love is more strong than love between Zero and Yuuki. Feeling between ZeKi I would call sth like "friends with benefits" xD I hope it wasn't a sarcasm that YuMe is a better couple, I believe it wasn't T_T Btw, I understand you wish for Zero someone better. I think both our guys deserve better ;) deserve someone who loves only Kaname or only Zero, it would be more fair from author's side, whose author for me... just starts to be ridiculous :(
Anyway, in this chapter I'm so glad that Yuuki thought just "suki" when she kissed Zero ;3 (I saw japanese scans).
"Suki" is sth like "I like him", "symphaty". Ofc It also means "love" but in japanese language is the least strong kind of this word. Sth like "I love green tea." The most strong is "Aishiteru" what Kaname told to Yuuki and "Koishiteru" what so far Yuuki told to Kaname. So far because
She will say to Kaname in the last chapter "Aisuru anata" what is sth same like "aishiteru" <3
I'm also happy because she had a mask when she kissed him but when she suddenly saw Kaname - she took off her mask <3 It was very visible symbol of who she loves more <3
I choose Kaname so I would see him in some better girl too but these signs are too visible for me so unfortunately I can't right now to see him with some other even despite of all these things :( In case of Zero... Although I'm not a big fan of him, I think he also should be with someone who loves him all heart and see him as a first choise, not as a second, like here.
- #70
Maybe it was written by a Yume fan. XD I'm still unsure of who to ship Yuuki with (I think that Kaname is much too unstable, and that Zero deserves someone who can make up her bloody mind already. v__v) The one instance Zeki would be an ideal ship for me is due to the fact that Yuuki is basically Zero's happiness, and him getting her would be a long-awaited gain after the string of serious losses he's experienced.
- #71
There'll always be some differences with translations, because sometimes going for the literal English meaning sounds bad or certain implications get lost in translation. But, since this line in particular was causing some confusion for a lot of people, I thought it would be good to clarify.
The other scanlating team has a livejournal community, if anyone wants to follow them: http://whitelilyscans.livejournal.com/
Regarding my thoughts about this chapter, as a Zeki fan I obviously adored it. I don't even know where to begin. I think I had two favourite things about this chapter (apart from the obvious): The Mask Symbolism, and the (possible) "Deep Dark Forest" symbolism.
Mask Symbolism
Before the Masquerade Ball, when Zero and Yuuki were still on the train, Yuuki had a very interesting thought: 'It's like we concealed our hearts with masks, as if nothing happened between us.' In the first arc, Yuuki had said something similar about concealing her crying heart. The "mask," in this case refers to them hiding behind their own faces, putting on an act and (like Yuuki said) acting as if nothing happened between them. Hiding their feelings, their thoughts. So when Zero and Yuuki are wearing their masks out on the balcony later in the chapter, the thoughts and feelings that they hide in their hearts come out and instead of acting like nothing happened between them, they lay it all out on the table how they felt: Zero's feeling that he lost Yuuki, Yuuki feeling that she hurt Zero without intending to, etc.
When Yuuki says Zero's not someone who would dance with a vampire, he leans in to kiss her as if to prove he doesn't care about that. And, what I love most about this scene is how there's three panels dedicated to Zero moving toward Yuuki, as if he's giving her time to move away (or time is just moving that slowly for Yuuki while she thinks about their relationship over the years) and then finally we see Yuuki standing on her tiptoes, tilting her head to meet Zero's lips. I also think they kissed, but honestly whether they did or just "almost," kissed doesn't even matter - the desire was there, and it was not one-sided.
(Possible) Deep Dark Forest Symbolism
Just before the timeskip, Yuuki "conceals her crying heart," after realizing Zero's feelings for her and that they've become enemies. There's a few bonus pages just before the timeskip where Kaname tells Yuuki that she has a deep dark forest growing in her heart. I always interpreted the deep dark forest (DDF) as the feelings she was hiding in her heart, the insecurities, the fears, etc. This is why she and Kaname were looking for the exit during their time together. And, possibly this DDF was caused not only by her insecurities but also by her concealing her feelings.
Chapter 83, Yuuki talks about the sunlight hitting the frozen body (Zero) and one day escaping the DDF. Chapter 86, Kaien mentions the DDF and that Zero is grasping for the sunlight. And then in this chapter, after Zero and Yuuki reveal what was hidden in their hearts and go to kiss, the panel of Yuuki on her tiptoes looks like the sun is shining down on them even though it's the middle of the night. Like the shadow behind Yuuki's head where the night sky should be, and the background being completely whited out. Possibly another reference to the DDF, and the end of Yuuki's monologue regarding it.
- #72
Seems I'm one of the few people on this forum that hates Zero and supports Kaname. I don't know to me Zero is an asshole and will always be an asshole. I can't ever come to like Zeki and if Kaname dies in the end and it is Zeki then my rating of this manga and anime will probably drop to about a four or a five.
Why you ask? Because it's cliche. Do you know how many manga there are where the girl gets the "bad boy" that she always fights with? Yes it's cute in some instances but it gets tiring after a while and I'd like something new once in a while. Hino-sensei will also lose my respect if she gives this a cliche ending.zero doesnt act like an asshole at all, hes somewhat cold here and there but thats more to not get others hurt
now cut to kaname who while not an asshole in personality, he pretty much is the definition of the word asshole through every single action he makes......actually hes a asshole in personality too now that i think about it seeing how selfish the dude it. Still hes literally caused every bad thing that has happened to any character in in this series......he also the reason this manga became so god awful which in and of itself should get anyone to hate the fucker
Yah i know im going off on a tangent here that has nothing to do with what im replying to, but i dont care kaname is seriously the worst written and most unlikable characters i ever have laid eyes upon, It literally baffles me how this character is so downright unlikable and lacks even the slightest bit of redeeming features, I was somewhat forgiving of it originally when i thought he was going to be the main villain and i was pretty much going to be completely forgiving of it a few chaps back when they pretty much confirmed he was the main bad, but no this manga is so terribly written that not only are they not making him an antagonist but they want us to feel bad for this horrible person? are you shitting me? God if this writer made a WW2 drama would she try to make hitler a tragic character?
- #73
smokahontas96 said:
I'm sorry, but I'm getting a little annoyed at all the people who are saying that the chapters are lame and the story isn't going anywhere, ect. If you don't like the manga then don't read it.
I'm not dropping a series until its over, i dont leave thign sunfinished no matter how bad they are
plus without criticism media wont be able to make improvements, take for example cod series in gaming, critics dont give it any faults so it continually becomes worse and worse with the devs thinking they are being well recieved
Yeah that's true. Personally, I think that the story is very well written. There were some times when it was a bit slow paced, but I didn't think that was a bad thing. It wasn't like there were any fillers. I guess that's why I don't really understand when people say that the story isn't going anywhere.