Bleach Chapter 509 Discussion

The old Yama is just overpowered!

Inarius said:
Fai said:
As guessed, this Juha is not the final boss. I guess blondie is. Or, as even more plot-twisty twist - Ryuuken is.

You could also be right, if the real Juha isn't the guy behind the sword from ch 500 (as far as I know nobody in HM has the power to cut Kirge in half or make Urahara shit brix so it isn't grimmjow) or it could just be the blodie.



Well the clues are kinda pointing towards his direction since after Byakuya died, he was the first to notice from what Kubo pointed out








while fake Juha could even sense shit as he had to hear about it from his 'subordinate'








And the way he's talking about yama on this page where he's referring to his original name








But then again, that could be just Kubo playing the troll setting the stage up for another mindfuck










But I hope it's not him...i dunno, I just don't want another pretty-boy boss....he looks like a pansy and it would make Ichigo look bad by slapping a girly guy around silly.



Yep, Blonde is certainly high-up.



Notice how EVERYONE, including "Juha Bach" was affected by Yamaji's bankai, while Blondie continued to calmly narrate, being the ONLY one  in SS to not feel the effects in the way others did?



"Juha" was all "omg my eyes are sore", Ukitake was all "omg i can't breathe", while Blondie was "oh, that fire is quite hot".



I doubt he IS Juha Bach, but most likely he IS amongst the top-ranked men.



Or even more hilariously, it would be that real Juha Bach has been dead long time ago and various uber-strong quincies use it as a title(ala Zaraki kenpachi)



Han-yuu said:
Kanic said:
Han-yuu said:
So if Real Juhabach deceived Yamamoto completely and stole his bankai/defeated him later then isn't that whole Aizen scenario once again?

I adore how every manga-related thread is influenced by Aizen. Plan  =  Aizen.  Every villain with a plan = Aizen-wannabe. XD. You know what would be awesome? If at the end of the series Aizen showed up and said "I managed to change manga history..just as planned".

It's actually not about planning but more basic concept, which is deceiving with a fake and getting successful results later.



which is basic concept of subterfuge. Stuff that is VERY common in wars and stuff that is frankly missing in usual shonen battle mangas.



Juha Bach either used a "fake" invasion force to scout out the area and weaken them before sending the real troops OR used this to do whatever he wanted to do , at the same time dealing a huge blow to SS.

Fights in wars are never fair.



Uchihafan25 said:
Wait so there's more than one Juha Bach now?! Man, Juha Bach is gonna become the new Tobi! Anyway, Yamamoto's beastly attacks are beastly. Couldn't really tell what north was though. Was it just some hot as hell slice or something? Inferno Mugetsu?! Well whatever it was it sure as hell owned Juha Bach. If that is his real name! lol.



Pretty much, a smaller-in-size and with less-cutting force, mugetsu-like attack.



Marius2005 said:
Sooooo Kenpachi got his ass handed to him off screen by an a fake Juha Bach, that's a bunch of bullshit. Kubo doesn't even have the excuse of waiting to show what the guy can do because he did exactly fuckall against Yamamoto becaue all he did was talk. Wonder how long it takes to analyze a bankai because unless Yamamoto really does have a north west, south west then he's revealed the full extent of his bankai for the real Bach to steal it.



All these last few chapters of build up and reveals feel like a complete waste now.



Or you are are overrating Kenpachi.



The fake Juha Bach(if he was fake) so displayed quite great level of power. Not near Aizen, yama and Ichigo, but certainly in the higher tiers. Its not surprising he played around Kenpachi so easily, IF it was him who did it.

Candor said:
The guy who died is Juha Bach in mangastream's version, here's the last page again:




Juha Bach's "I'm sorry" ended with point, which means his sentence ended, the last black panel was a voice he heard while he's dying/closing his eyes, someone was yelling "Juha Bach-sama", probably that blonde Quincy. The font is obviously yelling, not a man's word while dying. I think mangapanda did a mistake again, or could it be mangastream..?



If this is true then Royal guards and Soul King are final villains.

I wouldn't be surprised if he actually is dead. From the way they made it sound they still got years for this to be over in just a few months. We still got a long way to go!



But Jesus using his own subordinates to hold him down and then he just cuts him in fucking half like that! What a badass.

Yamamoto’s performance was outstanding! But it isn’t over yet, I thought this villain would be the final one somehow, but there are still 17 volumes to go.. what could possibly still happen.

Yamamoto could have killed him in one hit but that wasn't the point of the fight...



Yamamoto has a big sense of honor and justice, he's the kind of guy that would rather die than do something he consider dishonorable. Yet justice is relative and probably because of that the two of them clashed in the past.

Yamamoto's justice seem to be centered around power; the strongest is justice, the winner is justice and the powerless should obey the strong ones.



Back when Shinsui and Ukitake "betrayed" SS by helping to save Rukia, Yamamoto was furious and thought about killing them yet even though the difference in power was obvious, he gave them time to prepare, he gave them time to understand what was happening, how they were powerless and how they were wrong.



The same is happening here. Killing him is not the point of Yamamoto's action. He want to engrave fear and powerlessness into his very soul, make him realise how he is wrong and how Yamamoto is right.



The fight is over, Yamamoto still have one direction that he hasn't used so in theory they shouldn't be able to steal his bankai.

People say it's stupid that he is using more that one direction but I think it'll be stupid if he doesn't use them all except for one.

Of course the Quincies are going to throw some bullshit and steal it anyway but from an objective POV from Yamamoto's position, they shouldn't be able to if he does not show the last direction.

Gradation said:
Fake Juha was probably there to learn about Yama's bankai, so that the real Juha can steal it later on.



When I read "I'm sorry Juha Bach-sama" This was the first thing I though...





But the chapter was insane!!

Not to be on his dick or anything, but as a fan of both the anime and manga from the beginning, I  agree with almost everything Kanic postulates, and think he makes very valid arguments. I too get tired of reading comments that hate on Kubo and the way he writes the battles in Bleach(and BTW people who overuse the word Troll are themselves, Trolls). The way the battles unfold have been pretty much linear from chapter 1 so only a retard would expect and then get angry when Kubo does not deviate from the norm. If you don't like the way he does it then don't read Bleach.

Kanic said:
@KuroNoKenshi:

Would it make a difference?

Here are my 2 sources:

mangareader:

...forgive me... Juha bach-sama.

with ending text:"What do the enemy's words mean?"



mangastream:

...I'm sorry.  Juha bach-sama.

with ending text:"What's the true meaning behind the enemy's true words?"



I see no particular  confusion



There's diferent way one could write this in japanese which would imply different things. Translation have it's limit, that's why in case like that you check it raw.