Bleach Chapter 508 Discussion

Kanic said:
Zhou said:
Kanic said:
Not all mangas need to be like that, and you can't really demand that all mangakas must have the same tendencies. In other words some battles are tactical others are all-out brawls(otherwise known as DBZ style battles). Powerups are merely sth to keep you interested throughout the whole battle.

Yeah and both Aizen and Urahara are clearly tacticians.



I never mentioned either name. I don't get you. My point was that from the get-go Bleach promised sword-clash --ing battles. I see no point at ch.508 demanding a tactic-battle. Tactic-battles are cool and all but there is a limit to how much one can demand from a creator/author. One can demand sth like "a more reasonable battle system" where one isn't OP and the other can't even touch him but at the same time you can't really demand "smarter-battles" cuz this might as well be beyond the capabilities of the author.

Because grandy asked why fights in Bleach never involve tactics and has Urahara ever rushed into a battle without some sort of plan or tactic, no.

Damn. Yamamoto pulling an Alucard. Epic.



Kanic said:
Why can't bach use his sword? If I'm not mistaken when a Shinigami releases his sword the release will happen anyway despite of the sword's condition. Sooo..? Where is your Bankai Juha?

Bach's a quincy.

Kanic said:
@Above two posts.



We've been through that countless times over the past chapters. Quince and Shinigami isn't some kind of hereditary ability, just like how Ishida learned how to be a Quincy, just like how the souls in Soul Society enter the army and learn how to be a Shinigami. Therefore learning both is feasible, and the fact that he was wielding a Zanpakutou (him AND other people of his organisation) pretty much verifies it.

It's not really. They're completely opposite abilities. That's the source of the whole conflict between shinigami and quincy: kill the hollows completely which alters the balance of souls (Quincy) or lead them to the other side (Shinigami). So no, having both is not, in theory, possible. There's also the fact that Quincy consider shinigami unholy or something like that. So I don't see why a Quincy would want to learn how to be become a shinigami.

If it at least the strongest Sternritters wouldn't need to steal (or fear) bankais.

But what the hell, Kubo is a known troll so it really wouldn't surprise if he had one.

Candor said:


It's shape doesn't say it's a zanpakuto, ok I'd take it that Bach's could be in Shikai form, but why do all of them have the same type of swords?



Look at Kenpachi's sword, 1st level. ps. There was some sentence about zanpakutos & shinigamis, Ichigo's father have said this to some arrancar, grand-fisher maybe?



"10 trilion of... " seems to be "big number" but we merely see 20-30? But I love chanting.

ps. Aizen once said that he achieved max level in shinigami's arts. Then he & Ichigo "level up" into x-times stronger creatures. Now Genryusai makes "mugetsu like attack" not even losing anything like Ichigo. And I think that he was able to do this long time ago before Aizen. Main question - is Aizen some stupid person not to train hard. I mean you can achieve all this power simply being shinigami, not some shinigami-hollow-something form.

Why didn't Yamamoto use Bankai against Aizen?



Here's an answer:

The Shinigami's endurance for everything (hunger,breathing,pain..etc) is 10 times more than a normal human, using a Bankai that can make the Shinigami suffer could massacre tens or hundred thousands of people outside of Karakura Town, which would eventually cause the world crumbling because the balance would be destroyed.



dyils said:
What are you all talking about? This chapter was great? How so?

First of all, I can't yet believe that there can be that much of a difference in strength between Yamamoto and whoever is second strongest.(Even though I  might not know who is second strongest, anyone else clearly pales in comparison to Yamamato)Yamamoto is over 2000 years old, how on earth wouldn't he be that strong?

Heat that makes all the water in Soul Society gradually vaporize? Heat that would've killed Bach if he didn't have his Blue/Blut vene or whatever it's called, simply by standing close to Yamamoto? Can't you see he's suffering too? It also shows how strong these Blut Vene in defense are.

And THIS guy could not defeat Aizen himself, who didn't even try to use his illusions? Or at least wipe out the Espada?

Ichigo had to lose his power instead. And again THIS guy never joins the fights (This is his first serious fight in the whole manga), instead leaves everything to others. Can't you realize that Yamamoto is in a condition of rage? He lost his calm because he lost his discipline and he's blaming himself for what's going on, he didn't finish off Bach 1000 years ago. He was calm in the Living world because he trusted his Shinigami, the organization he built, the people he raised for hundreds of years.

I said this once in the beginning, I'll say it again. How is it possible that there's such a huge difference in power between the strongest guy I've seen so far (Yamamoto) and everybody else... I'd accept his strength if everybody was near his level, even if not quite as strong. People who won't die just by being near him... Who at least stand a chance... Like in Dragon Ball! (Not that I've seen/read it).Humans with very little to no Reiatsu disappear when there's a huge Reiatsu near them (like Aizen's), Humans with higher Reiatsu don't, Shinigami have 10 times the endurance of a normal human. Check the last chapters of the Arrancar arc again.



I'm fine with him being the strongest, given his position as a Captain Commander, that's just normal. But as long as he's not so much stronger than everybody else, that he can evaporate them just by standing near them in his bankai... WHICH power, I assume, he got by simply learning his Bankai. That immense heat comes with his bankai, right? He didn't do much training then... Just lucky to have a fucking overpowered Bankai. His Bankai as you probably noticed (I doubt you did though) changed since the last time Bach met him (Bach said so), that was 1000 years ago. Yes Bankai get powerful when the holder's Reiatu improves or increases.



IMO, Yamamoto fails the manga as a whole. Not just in this chapter. There have been many chances earlier in the manga, that he could've done something. The old guy going to the front-lines while his soldiers remain stand-by? Why the hell did he make Gotei 13 then if he can destroy everyone by himself? Or why did he formed Gotei 13 when he can't trust his soldiers?



Quoting user @Wannabiteme:

""10 trilion of... " seems to be "big number" but we merely see 20-30? But I love chanting.

ps. Aizen once said that he achieved max level in shinigami's arts. Then he & Ichigo "level up" into x-times stronger creatures. Now Genryusai makes "mugetsu like attack" not even losing anything like Ichigo. And I think that he was able to do this long time ago before Aizen. Main question - is Aizen some stupid person not to train hard. I mean you can achieve all this power simply being shinigami, not some shinigami-hollow-something form."



Although I disagree with the statement that Aizen was a fool not to try harder, @Wannabiteme has some right. Supposedly, Aizen and Ichigo leveled up beyond Death Gods, with Reiatsu so powerful it could not be felt by normal people. In Ichigo's case it couldn't be felt by anyone... not even Aizen, who's reiatsu couldn't be felt by normal people. It was that powerful. But then loses all that power in one all-out-attack.

And now we get Yamamoto saying he might destroy Soul Society by accident... RIGHT...Ichigo didn't have Reiatsu when he fought Aizen, his Reiatsu disappeared because he got rid of them to gain The FGT.

Again, Yamamoto is more than 2000 years old.



I ignored Kenpachi's sudden unexplainable power-up. I simply thought it's ok, it doesn't make Bleach less intresting, it's not that much of a main plot part anyway, but now this?



Regarding Kenpachi - Remember his fight with Ichigo, who had only 1 month experience of being a Shinigami? Now remember Ichigo's fight with the 6th strongest Espada - Grimmjow.

Now remember Kenpachi's fight with the 5th strongest Espada - Nnoitra.

Sudden unexplainable power up much? Kenpachi had already been a shinigami for many year when he fought Ichigo, who had been one for only a month. That's a clear indication if Ichigo's talent and faster Power-up.

Since then, Ichigo had learned Bankai and Hollowfication (The mask thing). He has progressed a huge lot. Then suddenly fights Grimmjow and has a relatively hard time, untill Nnoitra came and overwhelmed him. And then Kenpachi shows up and One-shots Nnoitra, who's supposedly even stronger than Grimmjow.

But as I said, I ignored that, it was a one-time fail. And now Kubo presents us Yamamoto - The Goku, planet destroyer of Bleach...*sigh* So you tell me when you fight someone and he beat you up then you beat him dead, then another guy comes to fight you, you can defeat the 2nd guy? You'd be like a ball in that 2nd guy's hands. Kenpachi was about to die before he one-shoted him btw. Also, Ichigo was going emo because of Orihime when he fought Grimmjow, Orihime screamed for him and Ichigo started getting serious and he defeated Grimmjow. (Bleach is shounen, let's not forget that)



Don't get me wrong, I love the anime/manga. It was actually once my favourite, but enough is enough. It needs to start making more sense. Everyone's power is WAY too inconsistant.I'm sure if you payed more attention other than ranting and with some logic things will start making sense for you.

As much disdain as I have for Bleach I have to admit these last few Yama chapters have been kind of cool, but that's the problem. This bankai is overpowered as hell which means that it's a set up for Bach to say in fake German "haha, I have been preparing for this bankai for a thousand years. Here is my instant kill technique so all this coolness will evaporate in seconds."



And in a nutshell that's is the problem with Bleach. Kubo has made an really cool thing that is way overpowered and written himself into a corner. The only way to get out of that corner is an asspull because he doesn't have to talent for anything else.

HO-LY-CRAP. He summoned freaking skeletons from the dead. What the hell does North do, summon the Sun?

All this showing off only for Yamamoto be beaten in the end... Cuz we all know it has to be Ichigo that defeats the bad guy...