Bleach Chapter 460 Discussion

Han-yuu said:
Hypno-girl said:
Of course it is speculation, nobody can say for sure what will happen.



Some people were saying that the story do not makes sense, I provided them a speculation that would make everything that happened have sense. This way they cannot say that this does not make sense.

Against someone that say that there's is no way out I do not have the obligation to propose every way out possible, I just have to show one to destroy their theory

Yup. That can be zanpaktou or NOT. we don't have enough proof yet. add OR for speculations and everything is proved.



What i said in previous chapter. Kubo better start explaining or this whole arc was useless to give ichigo his powers with new random characters nothing more unless proven from chapters and not speculation, i have Reading/Watching comprehension.



So far there is a way this could turn out so that everything actually does make sense. Saying that this arc was useless is implying that this arc is not usefull and since it contribuated to the plot in many aspect while still being logically plausible I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong on this statement.

ElMorty said:
Mh, I didn't dislike this as a comeback, but too many things make very few sense to me: it's too easy for Kubo to say that Ichigo's reiatsu core is too much deep inside himself for badguys to suck it away ... If they had no chance of succeeding from the very beginning what was the point of this whole arc? Wouldn't it have been better if shinigamis had just appeared and given Ichigo his powers back? All these happenings of the previous chapters seem so unneeded for now, to me ...



Ginjou got what he wanted, he still stole Ichigo's fullbring. He just thought that in the process he had stealed the totality of Ichigo's reiatsu which wasn't the case.



ElMorty said:


Other things I didn't like: why is it that Soul Society is so desperate about reviving Ichigo's Reiatsu? They have plenty of better warriors .... Hope Kubo will explain at least that ... (if they just wanted to save their buddy Ichigo they could have just beaten the bad guys for him in the first place ... no need for reiatsu transfusions! )





Ichigo is the strongest man that was ever part of the Gotei 13 even if he had a substitute post.

Also, SS look like it is reproaching Ichigo something, probably linked with Ichigo wanting to rely on hollow based power (aka fullbring).

My guess is that Byakuya and co came on their own free time now and aren't on a job for SS.

ok so they took away his powers only to give him even more powerful ones? what was the point of that. he had this same exact exchange with aizen before he used his ultimate form. what a waste.

Mh, I didn't dislike this as a comeback, but too many things make very little sense to me: it's too easy for Kubo to say that Ichigo's reiatsu core is too much deep inside himself for badguys to suck it away ... If they had no chance of succeeding from the very beginning what was the point of this whole arc? Wouldn't it have been better if shinigamis had just appeared and given his powers back to Ichigo? All these happenings of previous chapters seem so unneeded for now, to me ...



Other things I didn't like: why is it that Soul Society is so desperate about reviving Ichigo's Reiatsu? They have plenty of better warriors .... Hope Kubo will explain at least this ... (if they just wanted to save their buddy Ichigo they could have just beaten the bad guys for him in the first place ... no need for reiatsu transfusions! )



This chapter comeback was Kubo's: he draw a chapter as cool as the one he used to draw when he was at his best: cool moves, cool weapons, cool words, Kenpachi, not so bad backgrounds and no meaning and profundity at all. I hope he will keep on improving since the chapters before this one! (though I don't believe much that he will .. )

Still fine chapr, though!



Karhu said:
No but seriously, I really loved this chapter. Best chapter in this year, could say.

If Bleach keeps this level, then in less than a year, I could change my score from 3 to for 4. O.o

LoL

quoted!

Han-yuu said:
Hypno-girl said:
SS is reproaching Ichigo something, did everyone just forget that?

Byakuya and co are probably there to help ichigo / pay back their debt to him by returning him his power so that he have a mean to fight the storm that is coming at him soon enough.



Also do not forget that Ginjou and Tsukishima are captain level fighter.

They took down Ishida that back before time skip was strong enough to fight espada 7-9 and he probably got much stronger since then.



Why are you forgetting that Ginjou spared ichigo life before everyone came to help. Is that supposed to be help when your friend is in deep trouble and can loss his life? AND YOU KNOW HE"S IN TROUBLE. that is my point. if urahara and rest didn't know and someone ask them to help ichigo or he will loss everything and then suddenly everyone tried to help him with whatever they got. that would make more sense.



I want soul society to pay back after what ichigo did for them but suddenly pay back on crucial life and death situation happens in only shounen fight manga's, Well. this is just supernatural fiction after all.



Yes except that they purposely waited for Ichigo to have his fullbring stolen before acting. If Ginjou would have attempted a finishing strike then they would probably have acted before. Note how they came to help him when he started to beg for a fight with Ginjou when he was powerless, they acted because Ichigo wouldn't behave himself.

ElMorty said:
Hypno-girl said:
Ginjou got what he wanted, he still stole Ichigo's fullbring. He just thought that in the process he had stealed the totality of Ichigo's reiatsu which wasn't the case.

Yeah, so well done Kubo: the point of this whole arc was Ichigo getting his power back; a bunch  of new charas come in, some for the sake of him doing so, some against it, he starts learning how to use this new fullbring thing, things start getting bad, it was all a clever (?) plan in order to deceive him and ...then we find that all of this was useless, because it takes no time to Ichigo's SS friends to revive a much stronger power in him!

... doesn't sound a well thought plot for this arc, nono .... too many unnecessary parts ... at least that's what it makes ME think: "if all of this arc was going to be so pointless, wouldn't it have been better if Kubo had just cutted it all off, making the SS friends' party come at the very beginning, giving back powers, and ending it all, right then, ready for the next arc?"





This arc tie very well with the rest and is not as useless as you think.

This served to develop Ichigo's character and I wouldn't be surprised if Riruka join Ichigo's side somewhere along the lines.

Also the reason for Ichigo to regain his power also depended on this arc.

SS do not forgive anyone that willingly related himself with hollow power (they tried to execute senior captain on a doubt), Ichigo just did that 'unforgivable' act when he seeked a fullbring and SS will most probably do not stand sit.

On the other way there is those that beleive in Ichigo that went out of their way to make Ichigo regain his shinigami power.

This served to make Ichigo clean of this 'hollow power' that SS despise as well as giving Ichigo a mean to fight against SS.

Of course not everyone would agree to fight Ichigo, that's why SS will probably become a mess soon enough.



Byakuya came there to repay a debt, Ikaku look up to Ichigo since age ago, Rukia and Renji beleive in Ichigo like no others, Zaraki do not want his fighting buddy to be executed and Hitsugaya also beleive in Ichigo to some extent.

They are not envoy by SS, in fact giving Ichigo back is power is probably treason to some extent.

They do not want to save Ichigo from the fullbringer, they want to give Ichigo a mean to fight against what SS prepared for him.



Also when I said that Ichigo is the strongest man the Gotei 13 ever knew, note how I precised the Gotei 13. Of course there is stronger being than Ichigo, probably in the royal guard, may be in the kido department or may be a vasto lorde for all I care. I'm just saying that in the Gotei 13's section of SS, Ichigo was the strongest.



Also note when I say that SS do not forgive Ichigo, I mean central 46 and there's a lot of captain that will obey any order, including killing Ichigo no matter how much they feel on the matter.

Han-yuu said:


Also it makes me wonder. How ichigo believed his random crap like "We want to give our powers to you" but didn't ask a thing about his suspicious family background.

You are going by assumption that this arc does not matter. Kubo would not have promoted Ginjou as much as he did for it to not matter. Ginjou has his own freaking themesong, was included on chapter covers, posters, group posters, volume back cases, themesong cd covers and so on.



He also has ability to take FB powers which makes him suspect of being that "other" "shinigami representative" he said tsuki killed. Which makes him connected to SS, which makes him connected to Isshin. Occam's razor dictates that since Ginjou said he has info on Isshin, he does have info on isshin.

Han-yuu said:


What? there is something else? i thought he said we won't meet again and it can be just "hunger of power".



1. Ever since Ukitake handed the badge we had multiple scenes foreshadowing its importance: Ishida got really ominous feeling from badge, it was clear that the whole "representative badge" thing was bogus lie since no one except ukitake had any idea on what the badge is and Ginjou has similar badge.

2. They could care less about Chad's or Orihime's powers. One of them is on par with every captain barring the power four and the other of them has powers on par with hogyoku. Yet they went through all this ruse to get ICHIGO'S power.

Han-yuu said:


Some random points to move this arc.



Not quite. Orihime did not use her counter-shield against IChigo and she was going to use a different attack against ginjou during training that got interrupted. Chad  specifically pointed out that he is holding back because its Ichigo.



Someone having similar fb is what we call foreshadowing.  need i remind you how one name mentioned in naruto got turned into our "favorite"  Friend-rip-off or how stuff like arrancars, shinji and other things were namedropped through the manga? Chekov's gun is set for the purpose of going off.

Yeah, some things just don't change. Ichigo being a sissy is one of them. Roller coaster of a chapter. My enthusiasm reached it's peak at page 12 and steadily decreased up to end of the chapter. Let's see how things pick up from now on.