Vampire Knight Chapter 90 Discussion

Narutowolf77 said:
Edefrem said:




WHY SAVE A SHIP THAT HAS FINALLY (AND GODDAMN THANKFULLY) BE SUNK?!?!?



Because Kaname is bent on trying to throw his heart into the furnace and thinks he can make Yuuki happy about it by sticking her with Zero. XD



Kaname's a silly guy, he thinks like that sometimes. Then again most of the VK characters have suffered from poor judgement at some point or another XD



So what is his or indeed your explanation, for him sleeping with Yuuki if he is so hell bent on not having a relationship with her? ...

yunaleia said:
Narutowolf77 said:
That's one of things I like about Hino-sensei, she knows what she wants and goes for it, not caring about her readers feelings. It's admirable to me because I know that there are some authors that are swayed by their fans and I think an author should tell their story the way THEY want to tell it because it's their story and by writing it down to publish they are giving their fans the privilege of reading and enjoying it.



Their fewer fans ... thought I'd flesh out that comment since not ALL fans are swayed by this *not caring about her readers feelings*. Not saying you're wrong, but that was a very stereotypical comment to make when you should know full well that her actions have displeased just as many.



So? Your point? There was nothing stereotypical about my comment in the slightest as it was about MY feelings on the subject regardless any author, ANY author, that publishes something is giving their fans the privilege of reading and enjoying it regardless of whether they are swayed by those fans or not or whether those fans are pleased or displeased with it or not because that author does not necessarily NEED to share that story with the world, it is their choice. This is a truth, an undeniable fact that most people (such as yourself it seems) don't seem to realize. I myself am a writer and someone who enjoys drawing manga and making up stories so I understand this as an undeniable fact. I don't need to publish any of my works or share them with the world, when I do it is me giving anyone that reads them the privilege of reading them.



Which is why I admire that Hino-sensei doesn't care about what her fans want her to do with the story and tells it the way she wants to even if it displeases them (and I never insinuated that some of her fans weren't displeased by it (though I don't think she cares about that part of the fanbase as her target audience is in Japan where the manga is written and published and the majority there prefer Kaname over Zero but that's off-topic)). I like authors that do that and I feel that authors that are swayed by their fans are flakes and failed authors because they aren't telling their story, which their fans are given the privilege of reading the way they want to. I think the only time where it would be acceptable for the fans to sway the author one way or another would be in a shounen where the romance is not a big part of the story but the author still wants to pair the mc with one of the girls and just doesn't know which one. When an author has no idea what pair to go with but wants to integrate romance into an otherwise romanceless story than yes I feel that they can act on what the fans want them to act on. But this is just my opinion on it just as my first comment was just my opinion except the last part in my first comment where I said "by writing it down to publish they are giving their fans the privilege of reading and enjoying it." because that is not opinion that is fact.

3 more chapters to go and the only thing that happened this chapter was a tea party.I tried dropping the manga after chapter89 but couldn't. I just had to see what new misfortune will befall Zero. What I really want to see now is Zero getting back his memories and confronting Kaname for his family's death. And to see Zero reject yuuki(which is never going to happen since he loves her so unconditionally). I hate Hino for destroying Yuuki's character in chapter89 and I cannot like yuuki again. I am hoping Kaname dies to save Zero or something in a way to atone for destroying his life.

Going by shoujo standards, if the heroine slept with one of the main guys, then that main guy is her destined love interest. Even if say, Kaname sacrificed himself and Yuuki ended up with Zero afterwards, it won't be much victory for the ZeKi ship. It will only mean that Zero is the second choice to Yuuki, and she ended up with him only because Kaname is out of the picture.



I know I'm in the minority here, but I hope Kaname will find happiness at the end of all of this.

Honestly, before I read this chapter I was like "What crap will this be?". Surprisingly it was quite fine. The only thing I'm really starting to get fed up with is Yuuki's indecisiveness. Seriously, just decide already and stick with it! Overall, I feel like nothing really happened in this chapter. We had FINALLY some more characters and a tea party. That's all. What the hell is with hunters being buddies with Kaname all of a sudden? It's not like any vampire can't claim to become the parent just to be protected. And why would they send Zero to protect them when he suffered a weird memory loss for no reason? Shouldn't they be trying to get him better or at least make him rest? Also, how could the mansion just get attacked out of the blue with 3 (probably) the most powerful vampires around? They should feel them or something! So many things that didn't make sense... but I guess for VK, it's not that bad.



TBH, I don't think Kaname was doing anything bad this chapter. Judging by how it is portraying him he was trying to make Zero remember (biting his loved one) or to make Yuuki realise she wants to be with Zero (so she wouldn't sacrifice herself for his sake) or both. The only "jerk" I see this chapter is Yuuki. Despite deciding to be with Kaname, she keeps showing signs of loving Zero without trying to hide them or any guilt. She is outright CRUEL to both Kaname and Zero. ESPECIALLY considering that she realises how much Kaname did for her (at least according to this chapter). That's just sick. I lost any and all respect I had for that girl. And at this point I feel like ending up with her is actually the BAD end for the guy.

This is so messed up now it really annoys me.   

I really don't know what to think about the whole thing.



Seeing Zero in that state made me feel sick.   

I did like seeing the other characters a lot though - I've missed them.

Randomxxxx said:
I am hoping Kaname dies to save Zero or something in a way to atone for destroying his life.



No no no! This cannot happen. Why? Because it will be another joker card from the Kaname fanbase to *prove* that he is being a selfless anti-hero. This in turn will add a demeaning factor to Zeros character as he would then have a debt to Kaname (a debt to a pureblood vampire more precisely).



He owes Kaname nothing at present. The whole idea of him attempting to *save the Zeki ship* is an idolisation of two characters, both Yuuki and Kaname, being *helpful* towards Zero.



My ideal ending is actually leaning towards Zero dying (here me out first) by saving Kaname before he throws himself in the furnace. Yuuki then ends up losing both of her male interests, Kaname finally gets his wish and Zero can pass away in the knowledge that a pureblood vampire owed him a debt that he now cannot repay and Yuuki would know of it. The end result is that Zero can be at peace in death, Kaname can die and be forgotten about and Yuuki can cry in despair because she has no man to coddle her ... HA! ...

yunaleia said:
It has everything to do with it ... you keep slipping sideways from what I am trying to say and stick your own spin on it ... it's impossible to even attempt to make conversation when you do this. Almost every post you reply with is in the same vain.



Kaname wants Yuuki to be with Zero, but has the gaul to bed her ... what sort of twisted logic is that? Good bye sex? Biyatch please ... that's like backwashing a good champange and passing it to your rival in business (or love) ... Sloppy seconds? No thanks ... I'd rather save myself for someone who loves me without the need to bed someone else (more to the point your worst enemy) to prove that point ...



Your the one that keeps slipping sideways from what I'm trying to say Here's my quote:



Narutowolf77 said:
Kaname IS trying to make Zero remember Yuuki so that he can leave Yuuki to him when he dies there is no other word for it but saving.





Here's your's:



yunaleia said:


Quoting myself again here, compliments of Raven_Shinobi in that in almost all shoujo related mangas, if the heroine has a harem of bishies to chose from, the one that she sleeps with first will end up being the end pairing. Now unless Hino intends to prove that what we saw in chapter 89 was simply a night of hugging (rofl - no) then a Zeki ending is by and large impossible. Good for me, good for you, like Eskimo neko too.



You telling me Hino intends to break that manga genre?!



I was talking about a character and you randomly brought up genre, the author, and the trope that the first guy the heroine sleeps with will be the end game pair. If you're trying to bring up that Kaname bedded her then just say that instead of using misleading statements like the ones you did. I actually find it physically painful to debate with you because you don't make clear what you want to say, you try to make one point and then stray to a completely unrelated one, sometimes the point you try to make isn't even related to what I have said, and you keep reiterating arguments that I have already countered with cold hard facts.



If you don't think that Kaname wants Yuuki to be with Zero then how do you refute these quotes:



"Before you stole Kiryuu's memories...I should have used my life to make you human..." - Chapter 89 Page 34, Kaname to Yuuki



"And I should have entrusted you to Kiryuu sooner..." - Chapter 89 Page 35, Kaname to Yuuki



"If you don't know where your heart belongs I'll show you, Yuuki." - Chapter 89 Page 40, Kaname to Yuuki



"STOP DRAGGING HIM INTO OUR PROBLEMS! To think you're doing such a thing to... it's fine already ...there's no way we can return to how it was." - Chapter 90 Page 26, Yuuki to Kaname



And using the example of Kaname having sex isn't good enough to refute these either as Kaname did it partially, as stated above, to show her "where her heart belongs" and judging by what he said earlier in the chapter "You don't smile from the heart" when Yuuki asked why he left, it's logical to assume he thinks she loves Zero. Thus it's also logical to assume that he was trying to show her she loved Zero.



yunaleia said:
Kaname wants Yuuki to be with Zero, but has the gaul to bed her ... what sort of twisted logic is that? Good bye sex? Biyatch please ... that's like backwashing a good champange and passing it to your rival in business (or love) ... Sloppy seconds? No thanks ... I'd rather save myself for someone who loves me without the need to bed someone else (more to the point your worst enemy) to prove that point ...



As far as Kaname's concerned, he doesn't give a shit about Zero (well not really, he might care a little as he's not COMPLETELY heartless), all he cares about is Yuuki whom he wants to be happy and he thinks Yuuki will be happy if she's with Zero. Kaname doesn't need to like Zero or have Zero's best interests in mind to want them to be together. There are (or were prior to 89) many Zeki fans who liked Zeki only because they wanted Zero to be happy but they didn't like Yuuki at all, in Kaname's case that's flipped he wants Zero and Yuuki to be together even though he doesn't like Zero because he wants Yuuki to be happy.



Kaname still loves Yuuki even though he wants her to be with Zero, he loves her so much that he was planning to give his life to make her human.In fact I believe PART of the reason they had sex was because he loves her, PART of it was to say good bye because he plans on throwing his heart into the furnace, and PART of it was to show Yuuki she loves Zero.



There I just untwisted the "twisted logic" for you.