Vampire Knight Chapter 87 Discussion

@inzaratha-  I almost completely agree with your post, although I find some of Kaname's history and actions sad, ultimately he could become a selfless hero the way the manga is progressing. I can understand what drives him to do what he does, but I don't approve of his methods.



The reason why I do not like him over zero is because every time I see him on a manga panel my hairs just stand (lol). You can get a strong feeling of arrogance (a chapter was soley named about him and the conceited queen Sara) from him.



Yuuki even mentions from the very start of the manga that she dislikes the way Kaname treats her, as a child and NOT an equal.

She is at constant war with herself because of this, even suffers from slight identity problems because she is confused on which is the "right" Yuuki to be.

That's why when she cuts her hair off in the recent manga chapters, she calls it as lifting the weights, and breaking the bond she created to be Kaname's fiancee.



The only real kindness I see Kaname do for her was giving her back Artemis so he can finally allow herself to discover what she must do in light of his new plans.



Ultimately what has always bothered me about Kaname was always the fact he saw all of his surroundings a part of a game he has to manipulate, constantly using his pureblood power to gain the upper-hand in the game. One that he played with Sara and Rido.





I respect Yuuki because she is an example of Kaname could have been, not once used her pureblood power to make others submissive to her. Making people genuinely wish to support her.

Oh Gosh I soo can't wait for the next chapter!! You are right, Kreso15, he really has bad timing XD

Narutowolf77 said:




@wintercrush



I'd like to correct you on one thing. In chapter 61, Kaname did not feast on Yuuki to punish her. Part of it was probably because she was jealous (Who wouldn't be if the person you loved almost drank the blood of another person), but one also has to understand what drinking blood means in the world of Vampire Knight. In the world of vampire knight drinking blood can be viewed as an intimate act (not quite as intimate as sex but more intimate than a kiss) as is supported by the evidence that one cannot truly be satisfied unless drinking the blood of someone they love and that drinking blood allows one to see another persons thoughts and emotions. If this is true then Kaname drank Yuuki's blood not to punish her but to show how much he loved her as is supported by him confessing his true feelings not long after.



It is possible that I interpreted it as a punishment (Yuuki even says that she will be allowed to be punished when she leaves with him), because of the nature of how things happened. The fact that the next point in time we see her she is laying on a bed with blood covering her neck and the sheets and Kaname drinking from her. He even goes as far as carrying her to the room where he was awakened. Not only that but she recently had suffered an attack from another pureblood.

I guess putting it together in my head just felt that the timing was not right? To be drinking from her at that moment, even if you may be right that he was just doing as an intimate act.

ShinFrank said:
not to change the subject but can ya guys tell me the the main web site of the group that is translating this.  Also how often do new chapters come out are they out once a week?



The scanlating group I read from is S2scanlations. New chapters are released monthly.

The only instance I can think of where I felt Zero's actions could be considered 'jerkish' was the point where Kaname 'woke' Yuuki up and returned her memories.  I was very sad and upset with Zero (although I do find his actions IC!) when he immediately wanted nothing to do with Yuuki and banished her completely from his life.



I was happy at the end of the fight with Rido, when he asked her if the Yuuki he knew was still there and she answered him.  But, I was still upset and saddened by the fact that Zero couldn't accept her and told her that next they meet they would be enemies.



What really upset me about it, was seeing Yuuki break down after he leaves, saying that she didn't want to be enemies and wished that things could still be the same.

@underthesamesky: I'm really enjoying reading your analysis of this because your thoughts are on the wavelength of mine.



You're making me want to reread the series ._.



I started reading this mange around 4 years ago, I've forgotten so many of the little moments!

Narutowolf77 said:
However then these same fans turn around and say Kaname is the villainous scum of the earth and should just die (funnily though even though I hate Zero I've never wished for him to die), we aren't even going to bother analyzing his present actions and shall just take them for what they are. I believe one person on here even compared him to Hitler. And I don't just see comments like that on the MAL forums, I see them EVERYWHERE.



Can't say I like the Kaname flaming either. Or flaming directed at any other character. I think it's helpful if you consider the flames you often seen on VK threads as kneejerk. Most people would likely retract their hasty, hyperbolic comments if you call them out for it. The Hitler comparison is clearly a bit ridiculous and I'm sure the person who wrote that would have realised by now the parallel just isn't there. Kaname obviously isn't conducting an ethnic purge to 'protect the purity of the Aryan/superior race' (quite the opposite, he wants to destroy all purebloods) or behaving in another manner consistent with ANY branch of Nazi ideology. I think the word they were looking for is 'tyrannical'. Hardly synonymous with 'Hitler'. lol



By the way I'm liking this discussion, centred around on Kaname and Zero. The pairing discussion is so circular at the moment and a waiting game for more information. Thanks for the long responses @Narutowolf, your take is fresh and interesting. Although I disagree somewhat. :p



I see what you mean about Kaname's selflessness with regard to the HW. There is an argument around what the HW really wants and whether Kaname is doing it right but I won't go into that. I guess my point was simply that is Kaname's good intentions (and I honestly believe he hasn't suddenly turned unambiguously 'evil', what bullcrap) towards Yuuki manifest in an incredibly overbearing and inconsiderate way. By disregarding her feelings on the matter and concerning himself with protecting her in his own extremist way he's only half doing it selflessly according to  this definition. I hope that makes sense. But yeah, he's off the rails and needs to be slapped back up straight.



A and B sound reasonably plausible but personally I don't think Kaname wants Yuuki to end up with Zero lol! I think Kaname's plan, whether it be from the beginning before Zero's family was killed like he claims, or if he lied and it was from their first meeting at the chairman's house, was to utilise Zero as a weapon against purebloods and a shield for Yuuki. Zero is very powerful and effective after all. He warns Zero on several occasions not to forget his usefulness/function.



From their many shared moments of male postulation I think it's clear that they are love rivals that don't really want to lose to each other despite their actions. Zero let Yuuki go to Kaname at the end of the first arc but he was still hung up on her and wanted her. We get years of buildup and he finally makes a move in 87. Kaname made Yuuki promise not to drink Zero's blood because he felt jealous as hell that she wanted to. He left her quite unwillingly and after so much deliberation and now I'm waiting on him to make a love comeback and wrestle her away from Zero again lol. Because Kaname does what he wants, peasants. haha. How anticlimatic if we don't get one final big cockfight before the end of the series, and Kaname's dying words are simply 'I meant for you to have her all this time. Treat her well.' LOL IF HINO TROLLS US THIS WAY



Anyway yeah, I agree Zero did lash out unfairly in the past. But it's nothing unforgivable because you can see his improvement in recent chapters. I also think Kaname can be redeemed and forgiven, at least partially. I'm hoping that he lied about some of his serious misdeeds or there are game-chaging facts that justify his actions, e.g. Aidou-dono may be mysteriously alive, or Kaname didn't actually aid in Shizuka's massacre of Zero's family. Otherwise it's leading to his character death, which feels like a cop-out ending to me. I'd prefer something a bit more clever.



Btw, there are some even-handed VK discussions going on so don't despair ;)

Orulyon said:


And All I ever wanted was Zero´s happiness. Damnit.



This.

I feel like punching a baby after reading this chapter.

Godammit Matsuri Hino, GODAMMIT!!!!