Vampire Knight Chapter 86 Discussion

I'm a long time Yuuki and Zero shipper and I LOVED it. Yuuki's got blind devotion to Kaname, and Kaname's approval might be just what she needs to be with Zero <3



First I was like, "No, no no no, nonononono......" when she said she belonged to Kaname and then Zero, right or wrong, opened up Yuuki's closed mind to them having a relationship.



Is it possible that Kaname wanted to enjoy Yuuki for a little while, do his little murder spree mission thingy, and then leave Yuuki and Zero together to live happily ever after.....? That's what I thought of when Zero suggested their feelings for each other were orchestrated....



But I think Matsuri Hino intentionally wants us all to hate Kaname at this point and Yuuki will eventually mature and realize that just because Kaname did all that nice stuff for her and flattered her all the time, it doesn't matter if he's a horrible person....

underthesamesky said:
Yuuki made a point of referencing Kaito's words before she said anything to Zero about her relationships for a reason. Kaito said that "they" would never be compatible with purebloods, in lifespan or strength. Yuuki basically agrees with this by saying even though Kaito already said this, she's going to clarify things as well. She didn't "choose" anyone, IMO. She can't live with Zero because she'll never die and she's afraid of being alone; she "belongs to/with Kaname" because he's the same species and shares the lifespan. And the reason she gave for being with Kaname earlier this arc: "Is it wrong? To want someone by my side because I don't want to be alone?"  



Hino also made a point of paralleling Juuri & Haruka with Yuuki & Zero in this chapter. Not only is this the couple we've been shown repeatedly as being "truly in love," but Yuuki was also starstruck by their love story and wanted a love like that herself. So paralleling the Haruka/Juuri umbrella story with Zeki this chapter made it pretty obvious to me where the LT is going. Anyone that disagrees is entitled to, but I loved this chapter and I'm looking forward to the angst. ^^



Umbrella Scene Parallel Images by ImaginaryLights @ Tumblr
















- Zeki have a similar bickering relationship as Haruka & Juuri do in the umbrella scene

- Yuuki leaves on her own and Zero follows (Juuri left on her own, Haruka followed)





Wow! Good observation there! I didn't realize that at all. I guess there is still hope for the Zeki fans after all.

WHAAAAAAAAAT?! After all that HAPPENS,YUUKI YOU'RE STILL CHOOSING KANAME!? I can't stop ranting about what she had said. I hope Zero will have a happy ending. Forget about those two stupid purebloods. But after taking a look at ImaginaryLights.tumblr~ HMMM. Maybe IT still has a chance. Hooray for the future president of the Hunter's Association. :D

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                        So it seems we´ll have a Kaname x Yuuki end.



Zero, the underdog till the very end. poor guy. I actually hated this chapter (Why didnt i drop this?...)



It seems Zero is okay with being forever friends with Yuuki. Yuuki told Zero "I belong to Kaname".



Okay....



LOLOLOLOL

I have to disagree that Hino is playing with the fans minds making them think it's a Zeki end. Click spoiler tag for clarification (but read at your own discretion because it's long-winded):




- Yuuki is turned back into a vampire and immediately goes to Zero, who rejects her for WHAT she is



- Yuuki finally realizes Zero's feelings for her and thinks that she's not right for him because she's a vampire



- Yuuki thinks that being a vampire is her punishment for hurting Zero, and she accepts Kaname's sins in the beginning because she believed she had committed a terrible sin herself (i.e. betraying Zero)



- She is perfectly capable of using her fangs prior to the timeskip, says that she only desires Kaname's blood, BUT what we are shown after the timeskip is the opposite: she isn't sated by Kaname's blood because of her attachment to Zero, she's initially refusing to use her fangs even though she was fine with it before, etc.



- Yuuki says she's lonely and wants someone by her side, that Kaname's feelings for her make her sad o_O and they are what endear him to her



- Kaname asks Yuuki how she feels about him after he reveals he's the Ancestor, and the only response she can give him: she was happy with him as her brother and her senior, he's the same species as her, as a child she promised to marry him, and the only answer she can give 'for now' is to start over. Which never actually happens because Kaname leaves to go through with his plans.



- Yuuki thinks of the promise she made Kaname and says that in this way, he allowed her to stay by his side... and then immediately after she breaks it by drinking Zero's blood and telling him it's not because he offered, she wants his blood now, she's been prolonging her thirst for so long, etc. She said her mind "instantly calmed" the moment her fangs pierced his neck o_O She wouldn't have even had a chance to get that much blood from him at that point and it's calming her down? She also thinks that "if going back isn't allowed, then I won't stop myself."



Never mind the implications of her supposedly desiring only Kaname's blood and then suddenly we find out it's not doing anything for her because part of her heart is attached to Zero. That would have to mean that her feelings for Zero are at the least equal to her feelings for Kaname, otherwise his blood should have been enough. But it wasn't.



Chapter 60 when she almost bit Zero, people claimed it was due to her injury. Yet after drinking Zero's blood in Chapter 74, Yuuki has has not shown any thirst for any person at all, despite the fact that:



- She was bitten by two crazed night class students in Chapter 77

- She gave her blood to the night class students in 78 (many suspected she would need blood again after this)

- She was in close proximity with Kaname on numerous occasions, including while he was bleeding; if his blood was what she desired, she would have reacted after not having it in so long.



Not to mention the foreshadowing from day one:

- the homemade chocolate given to Zero, even though Yuuki had never given any boy chocolate before that year

- Yuuki not understanding Zero but gaining that understanding from learning his past & circumstances; the opposite happened with Kaname because Yuuki only grew more and more confused and still says she doesn't understand him.

- The umbrella scene paralleling Haruka and Juuri with Zero and Yuuki; let's not forget the fact that Kaname himself has called Rido a good mirror and had to watch Yuuki with Zero in arc one much like Rido had to watch Haruka and Juuri, ROFL.

As for Kaname's actions, Yuuki is meant to be the "justice" character in this story and she's made her view on the matter pretty clear... no matter the 'reason' she feels it's wrong, that Kaname has to be stopped, etc. Some of the purebloods were sleeping, and Kaname let Sara roam around turning humans, devouring purebloods and stay at Cross Academy near Yuuki and HUMAN students. o_O He even lied and took credit for her crimes, which made her look like the victim. Not to mention killing Aidou-dono for presently unknown reasons, which was the first act that threw the vampire society into complete chaos because 'bad vampires' took advantage of that opening, and gave the Hunter's Association more work.



Now Kaname's admitted to releasing Shizuka and having a part in the tragedy with the Kiryuu's, Zero is foreshadowing that even more beyond that has been manipulated, and Yuuki is denying none of this. So, I'm pretty sure things are only going to get darker from here on out, and though Kaname may get some redemption, things will never go back to how they were. People won't just forgive and forget, Kaien's already said that this time those who instigate needless fear and confusion among the people (which Kaname has done twice: first with the vampire council, and now this) will be dealt with more strictly than before. Kaname got a free pass with the vampire council, though he and Yuuki were still staying somewhat underground; I doubt he'll get such a thing this time, and I don't think he really cares because he's on a self-destructive path by choice.



Anyway, I didn't mean to offend anyone, that's just my opinion and whoever disagrees is more than welcome to.

Yuuki made a point of referencing Kaito's words before she said anything to Zero about her relationships for a reason. Kaito said that "they" would never be compatible with purebloods, in lifespan or strength. Yuuki basically agrees with this by saying even though Kaito already said this, she's going to clarify things as well. She didn't "choose" anyone, IMO. She can't live with Zero because she'll never die and she's afraid of being alone; she "belongs to/with Kaname" because he's the same species and shares the lifespan. And the reason she gave for being with Kaname earlier this arc: "Is it wrong? To want someone by my side because I don't want to be alone?"  



Hino also made a point of paralleling Juuri & Haruka with Yuuki & Zero in this chapter. Not only is this the couple we've been shown repeatedly as being "truly in love," but Yuuki was also starstruck by their love story and wanted a love like that herself. So paralleling the Haruka/Juuri umbrella story with Zeki this chapter made it pretty obvious to me where the LT is going. Anyone that disagrees is entitled to, but I loved this chapter and I'm looking forward to the angst. ^^



Umbrella Scene Parallel Images by ImaginaryLights @ Tumblr
















- Zeki have a similar bickering relationship as Haruka & Juuri do in the umbrella scene

- Yuuki leaves on her own and Zero follows (Juuri left on her own, Haruka followed)

it's nice to share our points of view...sometimes you don't have to have a reason to like or dislike a character and to convince someone is pointless...if we all of us like the very same character then this forum will be really boring ,contrast is what makes a good image,in this chapter we saw that yuki still loves kaname ,zero is a good character but i just like kaname...yuki sees zero as very important friend wich he is ...but we love our friends we never let go of them but not in a romantic way...anyway i don't have bad wishes for zero....and for Matsuri hino,she is a mangaka and she won't give us the answers ....and also ,she will keep the love triangle so we can still debate around it... kaname's manipulating acts were for yuki's sake ...and she only said a chunk is attached to zero and if she loves kaname  it doesn't mean she'll have to hate zero..Rido is not kaname ,and juri hated Rido while yuki was in love with kaname for ten years and still....sara is a bad pureblood ...but other things need some spotlight: where is RIMA  and shiki? Ichijou what in his mind now ?? And the first page we see kaname and yuki? I wonder if kaname will push  her away ...to be honest yuki was weak and still not that powerfull but it's like kaname wants her to stand on her feet and since he saw the hunter twins planned something but you are forgetting that ichiru played a role with shizuka hio murdering his parents, they killed her fiancee and the huters association was also corrupted as the counsil So we'll have to wait to the next chapter

if im zero i think i have to call this a wrap, she told kaname she was in love with him. she never told zero that. zero and yuki talk about her feelings for kaname...as far as im concerned kaname and yuki dont talk about her feelings for zero. seems like hes a friend to me.  when i see their relationship go to the next level i will become a believer, when yuki stops talking about kaname to zero, or anyone the way she talks about him, ill become a believer. until then i dont see the zeki thing happening, unless kaname dies and even then it wouldn't be worth it because i wouldn't want zero to get with girl who only wants him because her main squeeze isnt an option anymore.

on another note...why do people hate kaname so much. i dont like the way he manipulated yuki or zero's life but i have to admit he is one hell of a bad ass. i could be wrong but the way he treats yuki, as well as the way he is so calm cool and collected. he's one of the coolest anime/manga characters ive ever seen

underthesamesky said:
I have to disagree that Hino is playing with the fans minds making them think it's a Zeki end. Click spoiler tag for clarification (but read at your own discretion because it's long-winded):




- Yuuki is turned back into a vampire and immediately goes to Zero, who rejects her for WHAT she is



- Yuuki finally realizes Zero's feelings for her and thinks that she's not right for him because she's a vampire



- Yuuki thinks that being a vampire is her punishment for hurting Zero, and she accepts Kaname's sins in the beginning because she believed she had committed a terrible sin herself (i.e. betraying Zero)



- She is perfectly capable of using her fangs prior to the timeskip, says that she only desires Kaname's blood, BUT what we are shown after the timeskip is the opposite: she isn't sated by Kaname's blood because of her attachment to Zero, she's initially refusing to use her fangs even though she was fine with it before, etc.



- Yuuki says she's lonely and wants someone by her side, that Kaname's feelings for her make her sad o_O and they are what endear him to her



- Kaname asks Yuuki how she feels about him after he reveals he's the Ancestor, and the only response she can give him: she was happy with him as her brother and her senior, he's the same species as her, as a child she promised to marry him, and the only answer she can give 'for now' is to start over. Which never actually happens because Kaname leaves to go through with his plans.



- Yuuki thinks of the promise she made Kaname and says that in this way, he allowed her to stay by his side... and then immediately after she breaks it by drinking Zero's blood and telling him it's not because he offered, she wants his blood now, she's been prolonging her thirst for so long, etc. She said her mind "instantly calmed" the moment her fangs pierced his neck o_O She wouldn't have even had a chance to get that much blood from him at that point and it's calming her down? She also thinks that "if going back isn't allowed, then I won't stop myself."



Never mind the implications of her supposedly desiring only Kaname's blood and then suddenly we find out it's not doing anything for her because part of her heart is attached to Zero. That would have to mean that her feelings for Zero are at the least equal to her feelings for Kaname, otherwise his blood should have been enough. But it wasn't.



Chapter 60 when she almost bit Zero, people claimed it was due to her injury. Yet after drinking Zero's blood in Chapter 74, Yuuki has has not shown any thirst for any person at all, despite the fact that:



- She was bitten by two crazed night class students in Chapter 77

- She gave her blood to the night class students in 78 (many suspected she would need blood again after this)

- She was in close proximity with Kaname on numerous occasions, including while he was bleeding; if his blood was what she desired, she would have reacted after not having it in so long.



Not to mention the foreshadowing from day one:

- the homemade chocolate given to Zero, even though Yuuki had never given any boy chocolate before that year

- Yuuki not understanding Zero but gaining that understanding from learning his past & circumstances; the opposite happened with Kaname because Yuuki only grew more and more confused and still says she doesn't understand him.

- The umbrella scene paralleling Haruka and Juuri with Zero and Yuuki; let's not forget the fact that Kaname himself has called Rido a good mirror and had to watch Yuuki with Zero in arc one much like Rido had to watch Haruka and Juuri, ROFL.

As for Kaname's actions, Yuuki is meant to be the "justice" character in this story and she's made her view on the matter pretty clear... no matter the 'reason' she feels it's wrong, that Kaname has to be stopped, etc. Some of the purebloods were sleeping, and Kaname let Sara roam around turning humans, devouring purebloods and stay at Cross Academy near Yuuki and HUMAN students. o_O He even lied and took credit for her crimes, which made her look like the victim. Not to mention killing Aidou-dono for presently unknown reasons, which was the first act that threw the vampire society into complete chaos because 'bad vampires' took advantage of that opening, and gave the Hunter's Association more work.



Now Kaname's admitted to releasing Shizuka and having a part in the tragedy with the Kiryuu's, Zero is foreshadowing that even more beyond that has been manipulated, and Yuuki is denying none of this. So, I'm pretty sure things are only going to get darker from here on out, and though Kaname may get some redemption, things will never go back to how they were. People won't just forgive and forget, Kaien's already said that this time those who instigate needless fear and confusion among the people (which Kaname has done twice: first with the vampire council, and now this) will be dealt with more strictly than before. Kaname got a free pass with the vampire council, though he and Yuuki were still staying somewhat underground; I doubt he'll get such a thing this time, and I don't think he really cares because he's on a self-destructive path by choice.



Anyway, I didn't mean to offend anyone, that's just my opinion and whoever disagrees is more than welcome to.you have to keep in mind, hino is REALLY bad at writing, its very likely all the stuff you think are hints in your spoiler are really just her accidently making plotholes.



I'm just calling it now, they will paint zero as the bad guy in end, if that sound absurd and downright retarded thats why i think its gonna happen, this story has become so convoluted, so illogical, so downright bad i can only imagine this ending with the worst and most insulting to the fans ending as possible

Jaymie said:
You people are disgusting. Just drop the series now and spare the people who actually enjoy the story from your unwarranted character bashing.



Nothing in the chapter indicated a Yuuki x Kaname end. It just reinforced that Yuuki and Zero won't end up together, either. But Vampire Knight was described as a tragic romance from the very first volume so most legitimate fans have already been emotionally prepared for years for the fact that no one will end up together in the end.



We didnt offend Kaname, the person above me said hinted she didnt like him, and as for myself I dont feel absolutely nothing for Kaname, Yuuki annoys me the most (my apologies to her lovers, but this is all a matter of opinions). If giving an opinion without being rude is disgusting than spare us with your comment about OUR comments. Dont like it? Dont read.

Now if you want to share your opinion with respect and be respected in return dont go offending people. Come back when you want to discuss your opinions in a civilized way, Ill be here.

underthesamesky said:
Yuuki made a point of referencing Kaito's words before she said anything to Zero about her relationships for a reason. Kaito said that "they" would never be compatible with purebloods, in lifespan or strength. Yuuki basically agrees with this by saying even though Kaito already said this, she's going to clarify things as well. She didn't "choose" anyone, IMO. She can't live with Zero because she'll never die and she's afraid of being alone; she "belongs to/with Kaname" because he's the same species and shares the lifespan. And the reason she gave for being with Kaname earlier this arc: "Is it wrong? To want someone by my side because I don't want to be alone?"  



Hino also made a point of paralleling Juuri & Haruka with Yuuki & Zero in this chapter. Not only is this the couple we've been shown repeatedly as being "truly in love," but Yuuki was also starstruck by their love story and wanted a love like that herself. So paralleling the Haruka/Juuri umbrella story with Zeki this chapter made it pretty obvious to me where the LT is going. Anyone that disagrees is entitled to, but I loved this chapter and I'm looking forward to the angst. ^^



Umbrella Scene Parallel Images by ImaginaryLights @ Tumblr
















- Zeki have a similar bickering relationship as Haruka & Juuri do in the umbrella scene

- Yuuki leaves on her own and Zero follows (Juuri left on her own, Haruka followed)





So I'm not the only one that thought that this chapter gave Zero and Yuuki hope :) Thank you so much for pointing out the paralell to the Haruka and Juuri scene!

At this point having an unresolved LT endgame would be a ridiculous and disappointing cop-out, so I'm very reluctant to jump on board with speculation that Kaname would die, Zeki will be platonic or any other variation where that may theoretically work out. Adieu to love for VK if I'm wrong.



Also I can't believe there are people (especially Zeki fans!) who disliked this chapter, I was screaming internally like hell. It was good! For once!



In 34 Yuuki calls Zero soft-hearted when he didn't resist her choking him in her madness, saying that she didn't help him for his sake, but for her own. Zero replies that Yuuki's proclamation suggesting she needed him desperately was silly because he believes all she really needs for a partner is Kaname. This was presumably because Zero believed Yuuki loved Kaname most, from the blood she gave him, and that he himself wasn't strong or good enough for her, because she was his saviour when he couldn't be his own. That was the last conversation they had before Zero discovers Yuuki's pureblood identity. Who Yuuki loves, and who Yuuki needs and can rely on– Zero has always thought that the answer to both questions was Kaname. These answers were the real obstacles to Zeki- it was never because she was a pureblood and he was not, because he didn't pursue a relationship with her in school even before the pureblood fiasco. Although that did form the basis for all the Zeki angst/drama from arc 1 till now, it was most likely a red herring irrelevant to the resolution of the LT. If it was so determinative, then VK could have resolved itself years ago. In 86, Zero jumps over Kaito's point that purebloods exist in a different sphere - the illustration shows him reminiscing about the time when Yuuki was a source of support, a ray of light for him, and by choosing to accompany her he shows that her being a pureblood does not overwhelm his desire to chance it with her. Kaien Cross's conversation with Yagari reinforces that despite their vampire differences Zero would still pursue that narrow chance of 'catching it'.



Yeah no, I don't think Zero would be happy settling for 'just friends', guys. He wants her bad still despite all his stoic expressions. XD



Yuuki in this chapter still does not accept that realistically they can be together in any way - she reaffirms for the billionth time that she belongs with Kaname.  Zero's reply is to ask Yuuki about what she thinks they could be, if nobody manipulates their thoughts and emotions. Implicitly, he is asking her to question how much manipulation has played a part in how she feels and thinks about him NOW. He makes clear that he wishes to plainly see what could be possible when they go forward together now in a manner that is outside the confines of what is orchestrated by others, or preordained.



Zero, shaking up Yuuki’s convictions like a boss.



Instinctively I think in coming chapters something that would have a huge impact would be the reason why Adiou’s father was killed. It would give us better insight into Kaname’s state of mind. Even as someone who would prefer a Zeki endgame, I don’t really understand all the hate directed at Kaname – most of his misdeeds are cloaked in enigma. Why sentence him without clear facts? Wishing for his death, guys? Kinda harsh, don’t you think?



underthesamesky said:


And Yuuki would not just be "jumping on to Zero," when they've had development from the start



Lol no shit. I laughed when I saw the post you were responding to. Also @underthesamesky thanks for bringing the umbrella sidestory parallel to everyone’s attention! Juri/Haruka, so much cute. I loved seeing their loving banter reflected in Zeki :D squee!