Vampire Knight Chapter 86 Discussion

underthesamesky said:
I have to disagree that Hino is playing with the fans minds making them think it's a Zeki end. Click spoiler tag for clarification (but read at your own discretion because it's long-winded):




- Yuuki is turned back into a vampire and immediately goes to Zero, who rejects her for WHAT she is



- Yuuki finally realizes Zero's feelings for her and thinks that she's not right for him because she's a vampire



- Yuuki thinks that being a vampire is her punishment for hurting Zero, and she accepts Kaname's sins in the beginning because she believed she had committed a terrible sin herself (i.e. betraying Zero)



- She is perfectly capable of using her fangs prior to the timeskip, says that she only desires Kaname's blood, BUT what we are shown after the timeskip is the opposite: she isn't sated by Kaname's blood because of her attachment to Zero, she's initially refusing to use her fangs even though she was fine with it before, etc.



- Yuuki says she's lonely and wants someone by her side, that Kaname's feelings for her make her sad o_O and they are what endear him to her



- Kaname asks Yuuki how she feels about him after he reveals he's the Ancestor, and the only response she can give him: she was happy with him as her brother and her senior, he's the same species as her, as a child she promised to marry him, and the only answer she can give 'for now' is to start over. Which never actually happens because Kaname leaves to go through with his plans.



- Yuuki thinks of the promise she made Kaname and says that in this way, he allowed her to stay by his side... and then immediately after she breaks it by drinking Zero's blood and telling him it's not because he offered, she wants his blood now, she's been prolonging her thirst for so long, etc. She said her mind "instantly calmed" the moment her fangs pierced his neck o_O She wouldn't have even had a chance to get that much blood from him at that point and it's calming her down? She also thinks that "if going back isn't allowed, then I won't stop myself."



Never mind the implications of her supposedly desiring only Kaname's blood and then suddenly we find out it's not doing anything for her because part of her heart is attached to Zero. That would have to mean that her feelings for Zero are at the least equal to her feelings for Kaname, otherwise his blood should have been enough. But it wasn't.



Chapter 60 when she almost bit Zero, people claimed it was due to her injury. Yet after drinking Zero's blood in Chapter 74, Yuuki has has not shown any thirst for any person at all, despite the fact that:



- She was bitten by two crazed night class students in Chapter 77

- She gave her blood to the night class students in 78 (many suspected she would need blood again after this)

- She was in close proximity with Kaname on numerous occasions, including while he was bleeding; if his blood was what she desired, she would have reacted after not having it in so long.



Not to mention the foreshadowing from day one:

- the homemade chocolate given to Zero, even though Yuuki had never given any boy chocolate before that year

- Yuuki not understanding Zero but gaining that understanding from learning his past & circumstances; the opposite happened with Kaname because Yuuki only grew more and more confused and still says she doesn't understand him.

- The umbrella scene paralleling Haruka and Juuri with Zero and Yuuki; let's not forget the fact that Kaname himself has called Rido a good mirror and had to watch Yuuki with Zero in arc one much like Rido had to watch Haruka and Juuri, ROFL.

As for Kaname's actions, Yuuki is meant to be the "justice" character in this story and she's made her view on the matter pretty clear... no matter the 'reason' she feels it's wrong, that Kaname has to be stopped, etc. Some of the purebloods were sleeping, and Kaname let Sara roam around turning humans, devouring purebloods and stay at Cross Academy near Yuuki and HUMAN students. o_O He even lied and took credit for her crimes, which made her look like the victim. Not to mention killing Aidou-dono for presently unknown reasons, which was the first act that threw the vampire society into complete chaos because 'bad vampires' took advantage of that opening, and gave the Hunter's Association more work.



Now Kaname's admitted to releasing Shizuka and having a part in the tragedy with the Kiryuu's, Zero is foreshadowing that even more beyond that has been manipulated, and Yuuki is denying none of this. So, I'm pretty sure things are only going to get darker from here on out, and though Kaname may get some redemption, things will never go back to how they were. People won't just forgive and forget, Kaien's already said that this time those who instigate needless fear and confusion among the people (which Kaname has done twice: first with the vampire council, and now this) will be dealt with more strictly than before. Kaname got a free pass with the vampire council, though he and Yuuki were still staying somewhat underground; I doubt he'll get such a thing this time, and I don't think he really cares because he's on a self-destructive path by choice.



Anyway, I didn't mean to offend anyone, that's just my opinion and whoever disagrees is more than welcome to.you have to keep in mind, hino is REALLY bad at writing, its very likely all the stuff you think are hints in your spoiler are really just her accidently making plotholes.



I'm just calling it now, they will paint zero as the bad guy in end, if that sound absurd and downright retarded thats why i think its gonna happen, this story has become so convoluted, so illogical, so downright bad i can only imagine this ending with the worst and most insulting to the fans ending as possible

Jaymie said:
You people are disgusting. Just drop the series now and spare the people who actually enjoy the story from your unwarranted character bashing.



Nothing in the chapter indicated a Yuuki x Kaname end. It just reinforced that Yuuki and Zero won't end up together, either. But Vampire Knight was described as a tragic romance from the very first volume so most legitimate fans have already been emotionally prepared for years for the fact that no one will end up together in the end.



We didnt offend Kaname, the person above me said hinted she didnt like him, and as for myself I dont feel absolutely nothing for Kaname, Yuuki annoys me the most (my apologies to her lovers, but this is all a matter of opinions). If giving an opinion without being rude is disgusting than spare us with your comment about OUR comments. Dont like it? Dont read.

Now if you want to share your opinion with respect and be respected in return dont go offending people. Come back when you want to discuss your opinions in a civilized way, Ill be here.

underthesamesky said:
Yuuki made a point of referencing Kaito's words before she said anything to Zero about her relationships for a reason. Kaito said that "they" would never be compatible with purebloods, in lifespan or strength. Yuuki basically agrees with this by saying even though Kaito already said this, she's going to clarify things as well. She didn't "choose" anyone, IMO. She can't live with Zero because she'll never die and she's afraid of being alone; she "belongs to/with Kaname" because he's the same species and shares the lifespan. And the reason she gave for being with Kaname earlier this arc: "Is it wrong? To want someone by my side because I don't want to be alone?"  



Hino also made a point of paralleling Juuri & Haruka with Yuuki & Zero in this chapter. Not only is this the couple we've been shown repeatedly as being "truly in love," but Yuuki was also starstruck by their love story and wanted a love like that herself. So paralleling the Haruka/Juuri umbrella story with Zeki this chapter made it pretty obvious to me where the LT is going. Anyone that disagrees is entitled to, but I loved this chapter and I'm looking forward to the angst. ^^



Umbrella Scene Parallel Images by ImaginaryLights @ Tumblr
















- Zeki have a similar bickering relationship as Haruka & Juuri do in the umbrella scene

- Yuuki leaves on her own and Zero follows (Juuri left on her own, Haruka followed)





So I'm not the only one that thought that this chapter gave Zero and Yuuki hope :) Thank you so much for pointing out the paralell to the Haruka and Juuri scene!

At this point having an unresolved LT endgame would be a ridiculous and disappointing cop-out, so I'm very reluctant to jump on board with speculation that Kaname would die, Zeki will be platonic or any other variation where that may theoretically work out. Adieu to love for VK if I'm wrong.



Also I can't believe there are people (especially Zeki fans!) who disliked this chapter, I was screaming internally like hell. It was good! For once!



In 34 Yuuki calls Zero soft-hearted when he didn't resist her choking him in her madness, saying that she didn't help him for his sake, but for her own. Zero replies that Yuuki's proclamation suggesting she needed him desperately was silly because he believes all she really needs for a partner is Kaname. This was presumably because Zero believed Yuuki loved Kaname most, from the blood she gave him, and that he himself wasn't strong or good enough for her, because she was his saviour when he couldn't be his own. That was the last conversation they had before Zero discovers Yuuki's pureblood identity. Who Yuuki loves, and who Yuuki needs and can rely on– Zero has always thought that the answer to both questions was Kaname. These answers were the real obstacles to Zeki- it was never because she was a pureblood and he was not, because he didn't pursue a relationship with her in school even before the pureblood fiasco. Although that did form the basis for all the Zeki angst/drama from arc 1 till now, it was most likely a red herring irrelevant to the resolution of the LT. If it was so determinative, then VK could have resolved itself years ago. In 86, Zero jumps over Kaito's point that purebloods exist in a different sphere - the illustration shows him reminiscing about the time when Yuuki was a source of support, a ray of light for him, and by choosing to accompany her he shows that her being a pureblood does not overwhelm his desire to chance it with her. Kaien Cross's conversation with Yagari reinforces that despite their vampire differences Zero would still pursue that narrow chance of 'catching it'.



Yeah no, I don't think Zero would be happy settling for 'just friends', guys. He wants her bad still despite all his stoic expressions. XD



Yuuki in this chapter still does not accept that realistically they can be together in any way - she reaffirms for the billionth time that she belongs with Kaname.  Zero's reply is to ask Yuuki about what she thinks they could be, if nobody manipulates their thoughts and emotions. Implicitly, he is asking her to question how much manipulation has played a part in how she feels and thinks about him NOW. He makes clear that he wishes to plainly see what could be possible when they go forward together now in a manner that is outside the confines of what is orchestrated by others, or preordained.



Zero, shaking up Yuuki’s convictions like a boss.



Instinctively I think in coming chapters something that would have a huge impact would be the reason why Adiou’s father was killed. It would give us better insight into Kaname’s state of mind. Even as someone who would prefer a Zeki endgame, I don’t really understand all the hate directed at Kaname – most of his misdeeds are cloaked in enigma. Why sentence him without clear facts? Wishing for his death, guys? Kinda harsh, don’t you think?



underthesamesky said:


And Yuuki would not just be "jumping on to Zero," when they've had development from the start



Lol no shit. I laughed when I saw the post you were responding to. Also @underthesamesky thanks for bringing the umbrella sidestory parallel to everyone’s attention! Juri/Haruka, so much cute. I loved seeing their loving banter reflected in Zeki :D squee!

Orulyon said:
Arurie said:
I feel sick to my stomach... Yuuki... with Kaname? After all of this?

I suffered through the wretched Yume moments for nothing? Zero gets nothing?

Honestly, I wish I never started reading the manga or watched the anime. Then I wouldn't be all upset about a character I empathize with. And since it's fiction I can't do a thing to change it.

What the &*^$ do people see in Kaname? Ya know what, nevermind. I don't even want to know how anyone can like him.

*goes in a corner and whimpers*



I feel the same. To be more specific the only reason I kept reading this boring manga was only because of Zero. Its frustrating.



Same here. :I



I read VK for Zero & Yuuki x Zero.

I thought when Yuuki cut off her hair and finally when't back to her old self she would be together with Zero again, but now... I just want to cry.

I feel sorry for Zero.

You have got to be kidding me. *rips chunks of hair out*



Okay, does anyone have any idea when this might get wrapped up? If Zero gets cut out of the picture, I'm going to run, screaming out of this fandom like a distressed whale. VK as a whole is just driving me crazy.



Sticking around hoping that things are going to get better, but at this point...

I love how everyone jumped the gun on Yuuki's line of belonging to Kaname. In all sense of the word she does belong to Kaname from the day she claimed him as a child.



However Yuuki stating that claim right now does not mean she is declaring that she does not love Zero or telling him she can never be with him.



At this point I feel Yuuki is trying not to make it more complicated and trying to solve one problem at at time. And I'm glad Zero is thinking the same, no matter how much we all know he'd like to claim Yuuki right there and then.



I still believe Zeki will happen, it just needs time to unfold (yes I know a bunch of us have been waiting years for that to happen xD)



If you think of it, in no possible end scenario will Kaname live or be allowed to live, he is old and can never carry on the pureblood name without bringing destruction to yuuki and himself.



The only way they can get past this if he were to make Yuuki human again and die himself or Kaname will die and Yuuki would be the remaining pureblood.

Yeah I didn't really like the reveal that Kaname was Yuuki's "brother," lol I eventually got over it and then they revealed he was related to her a little more distantly. I actually wouldn't have minded the incest element so much if she hadn't kept calling him oniisama, I was glad when she finally stopped that lol.



With Kaname and why he decided to do the A's will now, I'm not sure. Obviously he's been planning this for some time and even if it's revealed that he lied about releasing Shizuka, he was definitely very interested in the Kiryuu twins existence. Possibly, that is the root of his plans, because there's a lot we don't know about the Hunter's Curse. I've also seen people say that Kaname gave up before and entered a slumber, but when Rido woke him up, he didn't want to waste the second chance he was given.



Well, there are other purebloods (if Kaname is unsuccessful in killing them all) and we're not sure what's up with Kaien, since he seems to have stopped aging. Though of course other purebloods and Kaien are unlikely to be romantic companions, LOL. Some have speculated that Yuuki would be turned human again, or that she'll sacrifice herself like the Ancestress did.



Next chapter is 40 pages by the way guys. ^^ And it's the second last chapter of the volume, so hopefully it'll be a good one. :D One thing I'll say about this series, and it's how I maintain my interest in it, is that it's really hard to enjoy as a "monthly" manga. Even though it's kind of long, I try to reread it whenever I have time (from beginning to now) because it really helps understand the story better AND it also helps you feel less frustrated. Some people don't have the patience to try that, but if you do, you should, it helps a lot.