Bleach Chapter 540 Discussion

Sephirous said:
if zangetsu isn't the true form of his zanpakuto , then why the hell did ichigo had to fight him to get the bankai ? and why couldn't he use bankai when zangetsu was released from him by muramasa .... and now ichigo has quincy, fullbring ,soul reaper and hollow powers and yet his quincy power is the one in charge.. damn it now we have to wait till next chapter to hear the story from zangetsu.



This! Yeah, what the frak? And also, old man Zangetsu appeared for Ichigo during the fight against Kenpachi, and Yoruichi stated that when you see your Zanpakutou ouside your inner world, than you are ready for the bankai. So, if the old man is the quincy power, why did he appear for the bankai training? Kubo, I get the feeling you screwed up something. Okay, stay calm, maybe something about this will be revealed, like some other inconsistencies, I will jsut have to wait for it.



BTW, everyone freaks out about old man Zangetsu's true colors, but what about the other plot twist? The hollow, that bit Ichigo's mother  was "artificially made from piling up shinigami souls", the same way this smith guy make Asauchis. And makes Zanpakutou for shinigami. So......... The Zanpakutou, the shinigamis' weapon, the sword is made from a hollow made from shinigami souls? Eeek! That's sick!

Mikan5 said:


So.... that guy... was "Zangetsu".... all along......... what his younger self looked like........ because of Ichigo's Quincy powers...... ok.



Nup. Still confused. Don't know what I'm saying.....



Same here!! Is it just me or are the plot twists getting crazier and crazier?? If the old man zangetsu was part of the Quincy powers from Juha, how is it that he helped Ichigo gain his Bankai as a soul reaper?? How come he didn't tell Ichigo ages ago that he had also quincy powers too?? Does also mean he is an enemy to Ichigo?



And if the old man is based on the quincy powers than that means Ichigo's true soul reaper powers come from the hollow that he got forced out of him?



I am so confused!! @_@

Then again does that mean that "hollow ichigo" is his hollow powers and his Zanpakuto?

Fai said:
shinka_otaku said:
Ok...

So Ichigo's zanpakuto is the white hollow and Zangetsu (Yhwach, Bach or whatever) is his quincy power, right ?

So Ichigo is not a shinigami...?

Dafuq ?

Am I wrong or what ? Someone please explain



Ichigo has never BEEN a shinigami and never will be.



Aizen called him a "transcendental" - someone who transcends the boundaries set by existing types of powers.



Ichigo is a hybrid, basically, hybrid of plus and minus, and all the variations in between those two types of souls. His power is something else entirely while displaying the facets of all those that make it as a whole.





But if he's not a shinigami then how does he have their uniform ? Is it only because he took Rukia's power ?

And what about the first training he had with Urahara in where he told Ichigo that in order to avoid turning into a hollow he'll become a shinigami instead ? (a training that consisted in having Ichigo's shinigami powers restored)

And the bankai ? He achieved it with Rukia's power ?

Maybe we can call Ichigo someone who isn't a shinigami but has shinigami powers...

It all makes sense now. How ichigo's new shikai is similar to Juha Bach's sword and the swastika of his bankai (cross motif)

Fai said:


He also stated that there's no way its a bankai, because it goes against the logic on HOW the bankais are achieved. Again, he said it can't be a bankai because of it's size and the fact that bankais take years to master not knowing that ichigo used a special method to acquire his.

Fai said:
kizu-kun said:
Ichigo's fighting style is clearly nothing like a quincy's nor is FGT like Litz Stil.... don't even need to get into all the things wrong with that. Oh please do, instead of throwing logical falacies around. Ichigo fights by throwing energy projectiles at his enemies. That's all he ever does. You're the one stating fallacies by claiming that ichigo's method of fighting via energy projectiles is "foreshadowing" Old man zangetsu being his quincy power. There are lots of non-quicny characters that use energy projectiles. And really "that's all he ever does" because that's all he can do! His zanpaukto only has one special move. Plus we already know for a fact that Isshin's zanpakuto can also use getsuga and FGT so the way he fights most likely has nothing to do with his quicny heritage or the spirit of the old man posing as his zanpakuto.



Fai said:


Shirosaki called himself Zangetsu multiple times, not just during that fight.



And yes OLD MAN is part of ICHIGO'S power. Manga made it clear that Old Man, Shirosaki, Tensa, etc are part of a whole that is Ichigo. They are all Ichigo. And yeah no shit that he had no name, since Ichigo was using the name he had to refer to someone else. Also guess who ALSO has no name till he gets one? ASAUCHI.

Nowhere did they state or hint in those scenes that there was a third power(quincy) or that the old man was the embodiment of this power. Also if ichigo's quincy power was suppose to be completely dormant then why is the old man, his "quicny spirit", so such a dominant force within ichigo? Why didn't white expose the old man for what he really was? Why was the old man the one bonding with ichigo and helping him through all of his fights while the hollow did nothing but try to take over him? lol Why the hell did his quincy powers manifest into a spirit in the first place? Do all quincy see a version a Ywach within them or is it just ichigo? lol All this twist did was further complicate the nature of ichigo's powers and brings the past scenes involving his hollow and the old man into question. kubo has got some serious explaining to do next week.



Fai said:
Oh sure. That is if we ignore every. single. case. of. foreshadowing that there was(like the fact that Ishida was able to use Ichigo's power to empower his bow in 49, despite that it should have  been opposite and was surprised by nature of Ichigo's power. )^lol they already explained in that same chapter that the reason ishida was able to use ichigo to power up his bow was because ichigo had terrible spiritual control and was unknowingly leaking a bunch of energy for ishida to absorb. That had nothing to do with ichigo being a quincy or old man being the embodiment of his quincy powers. Stop picking bits and pieces of unrelated past scenes and trying to pass them off as foreshadowing. I a fan bleach too but i don't go around trying to claim that the manga is flawless when in fact there are lots of things that could have been/need to be improved.

Sephirous said:
if zangetsu isn't the true form of his zanpakuto , then why the hell did ichigo had to fight him to get the bankai ? and why couldn't he use bankai when zangetsu was released from him by muramasa .... and now ichigo has quincy, fullbring ,soul reaper and hollow powers and yet his quincy power is the one in charge.. damn it now we have to wait till next chapter to hear the story from zangetsu.



Old Man Zangetsu is still part of Ichigo's power, the same way White is.



Zangetsu is still Ichigo's bankai. Just simply Old Man Zangetsu is NOT Zangetsu. Shirosaki is both White and Zangetsu, as Shirosaki said himself multiple times.  Old Man represents Ichigo's quincy side, his heritage and legacy.



But both Shirosaki and Old Man Bach are still PART OF A WHOLE, part of Ichigo.



bonifide said:


You really cant blame people for thinking like that. Look at Ichigo and Kaien they look almost exactly alike.



And oh look  
KAien and Ichigo looking alike is ALSO a plot point this arc will explore



monkey8113 said:
If Juha Bach was inside Ichigo because he has quincy blood in him, so... why did Ichigo dad can use the same skill as him.. unless.. his dad is also a quincy + shinigami. So Zangetsu was inside both of them. Which is twin zanpaktou which is actually both fake zanpaktou.. so Ichigo dad might not even realise the fact that he might have another true zanpaktou or the fact that he is half quincy too?



Zangetsu's powers were Ichigo's powers.



Old Man Zangetsu was simply representation of Bach.



Its different facet of Ichigo's power.

j0x said:
Jouten said:
So Zangetsu is actually the Quincy leader from 1000 years ago? Why, that was actually a pretty good plot twist.



nah it was an expected plot twist especially when me and other people are discussing that Ichigo has the quincy blood too and every quincy like Ichigo has the very same blood of Juha Bach so no wonder Zangetsu looks like Juha Bach



Hawaiian420 said:
If you guys think this is some super plot twist, and didn't see this coming when we first saw Juha, then you really don't pay attention much when you read manga.



Agreed on the "blood-fact", but that still doenst explain the fact that the manifestation of his Quinchy powers are the exact image of a king and the way he looked 1000 yers ago. Why doesnt he look like the curent state of JUHA? why are the other Quinchys different, but still have the same blood flowing in them....