Bleach Chapter 523 Discussion

Fai said:


And yes, she WANTS to be a medic, to redeem herself, but it takes so little to go over the edge. She seems like female version of Kenshin, frankly.



But that has never been stated anywhere.  To redeem herself?  Sure, we can possibly make that inference now that we know her true nature.  But before that?  There was nothing to say that she wanted to be a medic to redeem herself.  Admittedly, I don't remember the finer details of this manga as I would with some others that I follow more closely.  So it could be the case that I just simply don't remember and it was mentioned somewhere.  



grandy_UiD said:
It's about her friggin' personality that changed out of fucking nowhere. She went from that nice motherly figure (that was still respected and "feared" for being strong even if it was only in a couple of comic relief panels) to THIS. If her name wasn't mentioned in this chapter I wouldn't even have recognized her. No, I do not believe that Kubo created her that many years ago with a ruthless killer in mind.



I think this is probably the point I'm also a bit hung up on.  Of course, until we get back story, we won't be able to fill in the gaps.  But its just such a drastic 180.

- I''m happy that "your sword has a character" aspect is being shown again.



- Unohana vs Kenny: *Hides under blankets* Mommy I'm scared..!!!!

Hm... Bleach must have done something to me. I'm not the slightest bit surprised or impressed. Hm, nah,  maybe it's just Kubos crappy writing.

Finally :D i've been waiting to see Unohana fight for ages... and it's with Kenpachi no less :))

I think, it would be more interesting to have Ichigo and Renji fight with one Asauchi and try to master him to create their new zanpakuto.

Fai said:


As for Zanpakutoh side of story - I am guessing the answer is "Sword is yourself", thus neither is on top and both are equal



ha i thought so too, since a Zanpakto is a reflection of their soul as mentioned by Ouetsu in this chapter



raxius1230 said:


And here is the battle that Tite promise with Unohana and probably the only one she will have......



is this true? WTF Unohana will really die after this battle/training? thats bullshit

Fai said:
grandy_UiD said:


It's about her friggin' personality that changed out of fucking nowhere. She went from that nice motherly figure (that was still respected and "feared" for being strong even if it was only in a couple of comic relief panels) to THIS. If her name wasn't mentioned in this chapter I wouldn't even have recognized her. No, I do not believe that Kubo created her that many years ago with a ruthless killer in mind.





I was not talking about power. I was talking about restraining her personality. Redemption is not about just flipping a switch and suddenly being a good guy. Its about trying to not be a badguy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheAtoner

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Yandere

http://myanimelist.net/manga/22/Rurouni_Kenshin

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BewareTheNiceOnes

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BewareTheQuietOnes

http://myanimelist.net/character/2034/Chrno



Need more examples?



In fictional works, where characters actually get developed, a character rarely has just one facet of his personality. Every single character, for it to be a complex character, has various traits and weaknesses that balance each other out.



Hence Ichigo is both a righteous hero wanting to help his friends AND a power-hungry coward covering for his inability to save his mother, and so on, and so on.



That's what makes personal conflict and personal conflict is the basis of a character  - And Unohana has been shown to be strongly reserved overall, thus its only normal that there should be a reason for that, to justify her reservations and avoidance of fights. Since  we are using a modernized medieval-japan as setting for SS, a killer on the path of redemption is most likely trope, especially considering how she always has spoken about importance of lives.



vindemon64 said:


But that has never been stated anywhere.  To redeem herself?  Sure, we can possibly make that inference now that we know her true nature.  But before that?  There was nothing to say that she wanted to be a medic to redeem herself.  Admittedly, I don't remember the finer details of this manga as I would with some others that I follow more closely.  So it could be the case that I just simply don't remember and it was mentioned somewhere.  



There does not need to, hence why its hidden depths trope - common in fiction work. Character development is all about either enriching already known traits or revealing traits that no one knew the character has.



If we use this argument, then one can argue pretty much EVERY single character in every single fictional work to not make sense



We had hints that she was more than meets the eye and that was enough. IF every plot twist was spelled out before it happened it would not be plot twist.



Her personality and her interactions before this make complete sense with this reveal, thus her character narrative retains coherence.(especially since medics make the best killers and professional killers have a good understanding of biology).



It is up to flashbacks to enhance it and to not break it.



I completely agree with you!

TheUnknownOne said:
Peralisc said:
Fai said:
Seriously, Kubo writes some of the most badass women characters in shonen genre, which is somewhat refreshing compared to an outright misogyny of kishi and oda.



So what do you think about Zaraki's little pink haired girlfriend to actually be some super strong shinigami that for one reason or the other ended up being as Nel (that green haired arrancar woman)



Are you kidding? Nel is actually a very strong, badass character. Yachiru also had her moment with the messenger, though I concede that she's a stereotypical bubbly girl, I fail to see how that's misogynistic. Not only that, the clear majority of Bleach female characters are capable in their own right contrary to the lack of badass/capable female characters in more older looking battle manga.



being bubbly or cheerful does not instantly mean the writer who wrote that is misogynist. Both Cheerful innocent characters and surviving victims can be written in many different ways. A female character does not need to be a hardass tomboy to display themes of empowerment and/or gender equality.



Not to mention that Yachiru shows no fear towards both Unohana and Zaraki and is shown to be quite dangerous in how others react to her.



And Nel? Now my memories of HM arc are a little hazy, but wasn't she one of the strongest pre-Aizen Espada capable of standing up against most of Aizen's Espada and only having been defeated in the past due to scheming and underhanded treachery of a clear villain who was unable to deal with the fact that a woman was stronger than him? And despite being defeated and having all of her power taken form her, didn't Nel still never ever acknowledge or even accept Nnoitora as stronger? She pretty much chided Nnoitora for being a child and displayed a strong sense of honor, as well as moral superiority. She also was shown to be intelligent, well-versed, interested in reading and only went down due an unfair distraction, which, Szayel pretty much stated was THE ONLY reason Nnoitora won.  In fact, after that,  Nnoitora got YEARS of unfair advantage and in the end STILL got schooled by her.