Bleach Chapter 515 Discussion

TakeshiKun said:
I am honestly disappointed in this chapter. Kubo, what the fuck? seriously? What the hell was the point in that (at the time what we thought to be) "Death" scene with Byakuya? He died, then he was somehow alive still and starts talking to Ichigo. Then we think he's dead again, but now he's alive in a coma? Fuck you. As much as I love Byakuya as a character (I seriously do, he's pretty epic) Kubo should have kept him dead. It added to the story and it was very emotional to see such a good character die. But no, he's not dead.



I didn't think Kenpachi was dead in the first place. I thought he was just nearly beaten to death.



I agree completely with this. Byakuya is such a great character, but after all that build up for his death, it's a slap in the face to the fans when you reveal he is still alive.

fuvk. you kubo

just kill him alre ady T.T

shakeyourpup45 said:
This went from grim, to funny (Ikkaku is hannibal!), and then to sad again.



- Wow...Doggie Kruger (Aka: Komamura) lost an ear; Kyoraku lost his eye against that gunner; Ukitake, Toshi and Mugu gets bandages?!



- I give Kyoraku a lot of credit for being the adult in the room.



- Byakuya (?!) and Kenny are alive? But it looks like they they're getting the worst treatment...like they permanently handicapped (coma?) That's sad, Kenny got beaten by that twin..



Shunsui also lost half his ear.



Njs_Fluffy said:
Soi fon was pretty annoying....



I don't know, I found it pretty much in character - she is one of youngest captains, its pretty much a first real war and her friends are dying left and right and her leader has been blown to smitherens. Overreacting and trying to place the blame is one of many forms of grief.



Kanic said:
@Fai

Oh boy, I really don't want to take part in comparisons but..anyway, let's get on with it.



Ichigo's situation isn't particularly more tangible for simple reasons, he is absolutely everything, which makes his existance a problem for the series itself. Yes he is placed in an unlikely position, but the way he is, is absolutely bad and highly predictable. Everyone chases him for his powers (visard/fb/quincy) and everyone admires him for some feats, that are also based on said powers. E.g. when he appeared in FKT to defeat Aizen, the only reason everyone put their hopes on him was because he was not a slave to Kyoka Suigetsu, not because of personality or feats. It was only later in FB arc that he was actually acknowledged properly (when Yamaji sent all those people to help him). Most of these stuff are not bad by themselves, but they seem very badly told. Ichigo's path is generally defined by how many people acknowledge him and assist him , which though not particularly original is a nice concept badly told, cuz never did Kubo dedicated any chapters to portray the slow change of mentality in SS, like focusing on characters's emotions/inner thoughts/behaviour towards Ichigo. In short to my eyes SS accepting Ichigo is something that was logical to happen but it was badly told, and because I'm a reader who prefers characters over a plot (not in an absolute proportion) I felt disappointed, even more so since Bleach's plot was a one-way path up till now.



I'm more than happy to analyse Bleach as much as you want but I don't wanna get involved with analysing Naruto in this thread, please understand





I mostly agree with what you said but that's the common tropes of shounen genre. The hero will always be special chosen one and he will always change things.



The details are in execution though.



The fact that Ichigo is actually intelligent and a bit introverted and not just "hardworking relatable dumb guy" that the usual manga protagonists are(something about children being able to relate to such stereotypes etc etc)



I find it far nicer that Ichigo grew to be feared after SS and Aizen arcs.



SS did change but the change happened quite some time ago. After the massacre. The FB arc narrative from SS I took more of "we do not want to have Ichigo as the enemy and as long as we help him he most likely won't do what Ginjou did".



With Ichigo it was "We do not want to repeat what happened with Ginjou" but they still feared Ichigo (gathering most of captains to "greet him" when he came for the body, etc)



You have medieval japan conservative society who is reacting to this new powerhouse who pretty much goes against that conservative thinking.



And even in this very situation now - he did not beat the main badguy, the badguy just happened to leave, but demoralized SS NEEDS someone as their "lighthouse" for the lack of better words. Shinji knows that Ichigo might have done nothing AND was beaten, but spreading the word that he "forced them back" puts Ichigo as new source of morale for the troops.



For me that works far more nicer than usual "hero comes, beats back the badguys and everyone suddenly likes him" twists that are so common in the manga.



Sure Ichigo is still powerhouse special child who comes to save the day, but how it is done I find far more preferable here.



I find a demoralized destroyed land idolizing Ichigo as a new hope, deservedly or undeservedly, far more interesting than main character coming, beating everyone and suddenly everyone revealing that they liked him all along.



Yet again this manga has a fair share of shounen genre tropes, but its the way Ichigo has been written since Jinzen stuff, that makes him stand out from the rest for me.

Han-yuu said:


Apparently, Unohana was ordered to stay in barracks, even if everyone die in the battlefield. Greatest war tactic i ever heard.



As opposed to the medics being picked off when they are scattered around the battlefield?



In HQ all the medics were nearby the second strongest shinigami in SS (Unohana). So when one way or the other, the enemies retreated, they all had fighting  and surviving chance thanks to entire medical staff being intact.



shakeyourpup45 said:
I think combat medics receive/treat wounded only after a battle or if called. They aren't supposed to participate in the fighting and priority is the protection of the patients



Gonna have to look it up.



But you'd think there'd be a medic near the squads...



And I saw Hanataro!

In normal war that would be the case(field medics, etc). However in this case Quincy goal was shinigami genocide - they specifically targeted support, like communications and R&D - medics would be just picked off first upon being seen and unlike the rest of troops they do not have real fighting chances, not to mention that the very intention of enemy army is to not leave anyone alive.  

Glad Byakuya and Kenpachi still alive.



But I wonder what will Ichigo do next

This chapter was definitely better than the ones that came before it. I liked that there was some humour in the chapter, and I am so glad that Rukia and Renji are ALIVE! I never thought that Kenpachi had beaten that badly form him to end up in a coma, as long he's alive, its fine. I definitely think Kyoraku should be the captain commander, I loved the way he dealt with the other captains.



Kubo just had to continue his trolling fest and keep Byakuya alive, as much as I love the character, I'm definitely pissed that Kubo gave him that monologue yet he's still alive. Byakuya's death would have added more depth to the story.



On the downside, the questions from the previous chapters still haven't been answered! Hopefully some will be soon!

Byakuya and Zaraki are alive!

A new law in Bleach: "people don't die if they are killed".

"Kanic" said:
WAAAY way back when Hanataro first appeared he made cear that almost none of the medic unit use Zanpakutou, with the exception of captain and vice-captain.

Ok, I believe you, I am too lazy to check that*. BUT x) the combat medics unit might've been created from the group of warriors(hence name "combat" medics) who handle kidou well - for example Kira handled Matsumoto's ripped parts of her body(basically half of the stomach). Such unit could be deployed when most of the attackers after defeating their opponents rushed to assault Yamamoto. Then medics could reach those defeated ones. Imagine how crucial was lack of immediate help on the Byakuya's part.











*But if I remember Hanatarou's zanpakutou was pretty powerful when its meter was full, like one-time getsuga tenshou. Even if they don't use their zanpakutou doesn't mean they don't have them, they were trained, like you see in the modern warfare when medics don't carry heavy weapons but some handguns.