Bleach Chapter 515 Discussion
- Thread starter SachinAAA
- Start date
- #3
You know, I just knew that you would bring up this, but then I thought "Nah, that's a really stupid point, there's no way he would believe that." But no, you believe this unironically. So let me tell you something that will blow your mind:
Combat medics exist. They are pepole trained to use weapons and can be attached to units as support and they can give first aid during fighting. The pepole you are confusing with the combat medics are called regular or "straight" medics, and yes, those are the guys standing behind the front lines and work in the E.R. or work on a hospital ward taking vitals, but they may also go out on convoys while deployed.
Now, after I gave you this common knowdlege information, do you still believe that the fourth division is completely unable to hold their own in battle only because they're the medics?
And what did I write? IN THIS SITUATION it made no sense to send out your best medics and loose. They were facing an overwhelming odds of people(with ranged capabilities) who had specific intent of annihilating them all and who were led by a person whom Yamaji failed to kill.
Yamaji had a pretty good idea that Juha would have to retreat because of RG if Yamaji failed, so it only made sense to preserve the best medics available to help out the aftermath instead of being picked off one by one with arrows in the middle of battle like it happened to majority of R&D.
SilentTruth said:
But I wonder what will Ichigo do next
1. Get his sword fixed.
2.
A) Free Aizen and ask him to explain what the hell.
B) Find his father and ask to explain him what the hell.
3. Save the Day.
Puty said:
I wouldn't call Kubo's thinking process in that matter a genius either.
We are talking about Kubo who had no problems basing entire SS on bushido code and having Aizen quote sun-tzu every two chapter, as well as drawing parallels to WW2. Kubo has flaws but war tactics is not one of them.
Puty said:
Yes, you do, maybe not "the most valuable" but at least some amount of them.
Hence why I said overwhelming odds. I am pretty sure that if odds were different, 4th squad would have gotten different orders.
But they were facing ranged enemies who had intent of crippling and annihilating SS. Enemies that Yamaji fought before so he most likely knows how the tactics would work.
Enemies who had no problems targeting the communications and R&D on the field first - casually one-shotting the messengers and R&D members (ex: what Old pistol dude did).
Its only logical that they would take out medics once they see them.
Puty said:
Only with the assumption that attackers would go away, because... umm, plot says so.
Its quite clear that Yamaji had a quite good idea that quincies worked on a clock and would have to regroup before Royal Guards arrive.
Puty said:
It was actually pretty stupid of the Stern Ritters NOT to even try attacking the medics who were gathered all in one place, especially, since they seem to know the SS logistically(sorry, don't know if that's the right word).
First of all we do not know how the 4th squad headquarters work.
Second of all, Unohana is the second strongest captain, with stats comparable to Yamamoto - so anyone not counting Bach would most likely get owned there. And Bach, no surprise, has been centered on Yamaji, as Yamaji pretty much instantly sought him out.
Yamamoto with this decision, at once did a couple of things:
1. Protected the second strongest captain in SS.
2. Used that captain as protection for medics.
3. Made sure that once Quincies retreat to regroup, there would be someone to both lead and to heal.
We are not working by modern logic right now. Its the oldschool samurai crap of accepting death in the battle and all that crap and in that way it works perfectly - those who died were prepared to die that way by the code and those who survived had a bigger survival chances due to the entire body of 4th Squad being intact.
Puty said:
Nobody says to send them all. To me it's better than - everybody get killed - who's to heal then?
And we saw how well that worked out with communications teams and R&D folks.
Puty said:
Did they know that SR will retreat?
I am quite Sure Yamaji had quite a good idea on what RG are capable of and that Quincies would want to regroup.
Quincies were fighting to kill. If someone survived an attack its by a mistake of quincies. So Yamaji most likely took a chance on giving better chances at regrouping and survival of survivors post-fight than bank on incredibly slim odds of saving a few who did not get incinerated by quincies.
Puty said:
When they declared this war they said they wiill destroy SS. Sometimes fatal wounds can only be trated in the very narrow amount of time - by the medics in the battlefield.
Which all the more points at the decision Yamaji did being correct - Its better to give better chances to help those who did survive than to hope that someone survived in attack that is meant to be a shinigami genocide.
If Yama wins, the enemies are demoralized and either get taken care of by Yamaji or others OR retreat. 4Th Squad can heal the survivors.
If Yama looses, Enemies have to still retreat because of RG and possible limitations(we do not know on if Yama knew about the whole shadow-territory timelimit). 4Th Squad can heal the survivors.
Puty said:
But yeah, right, I guess I have to remeber that this is Bleach and people are dying dozens of chapters(Byakuya) and still they somehow make it.
And those dozens of chapters have been equal to few minutes.
- #5
Puty said:
Kanic said:
I think that was a filler (that I had the bad luck of watching)
Still, we aggree that there this war wasn't depicted absolutely correctly. At least the story progresses. So let's see.
Really? I could swear it was at the end of some of the anime episodes(those mini-stories) when Kon stole Hanatarou's sword. I thought Kubo had something to do with them.
...Just to inform. Hanatarou DID have a powerful bankai. The same we saw in a filler.
In Volume 22 and 23, between chapters, Kubo Tite drew a small side-story about Kon (stuck in Hanatorou's gigai/fake body). Kon accidentally released Hanatorou's bankai and blew away dozens of shinigami, which Kenpachi saw... it ended up with Kenpachi trying to pick a fight with Kon...
I think you mean Shikai. Hanataro doesn't have Bankai.
- #7
We are talking about Kubo who had no problems basing entire SS on bushido code and having Aizen quote sun-tzu every two chapter, as well as drawing parallels to WW2. Kubo has flaws but war tactics is not one of them.
No, no. I mean a battle tactics, not symbolism or something like that. It's because the very same reason you are praising Kubo, but let's get to this.
Enemies who had no problems targeting the communications and R&D on the field first - casually one-shotting the messengers and R&D members
And yet they didn't even TRY to target the medics. << that's some huge fail on the "smart enemy" part.
But they were facing ranged enemies who had intent of crippling and annihilating SS. Again, good point but it still strenghtens my argument. If their intent was to destroy SS, medics would be naturally their prime target.
1. Protected the second strongest captain in SS.
2. Used that captain as protection for medics.
3. Made sure that once Quincies retreat to regroup, there would be someone to both lead and to heal.
I only agree with the point of Unohana being made a new leader in case something happened. Because still, Yama-ji's plan would heavily backfire - if the medics were in the one place simple bomb or huge blast or something like that would be enough, don't you think? That is some enormous bet on Yama's part. Only plot convenience made that work. And as we still assume(sorry, I don't follow the guidebooks, only the material given in the manga) that Unohana is pretty strong, we don't know what about certain Stern Ritters power levels. For example - this Haschwald guy might be enough to handle her since he broke Ichigo's sword so easily. or they could gang up on her, because as we see, Captains seek SR(Ukitake, Shinji), they don't know where they are - SR had big advantage over them, surprise attack, quick attack - blitzkrieg if you like. So to me, it was lame excuse not to use Unohana right now, like for example Ukitake being one shotted by Wonderweiss, because Kubo was saving his bankai for later.
And those dozens of chapters have been equal to few minutes.
Only in terms of reading ;]. Quite much happened after Byakuya was defeated. Yes, it wasn't long, but I don't think it was few minutes.
EDIT: BTW. Since it's now official that you are dead only if you are smashed to pieces or fodder(yes, Sasakibe is counted) - I'm making outrageous (because I would have to break something if it would turn out to be true)call - Gin is alive and it is him in HM who helped Urahara.
EDIT 2: Just to be clear, still not convinced with not sending any medical troops. Assumption that they would certainly die is too wide for me.
- #8
Next chapter we might get much info though, because of awesome Kurotsuchi.
- #9
Aldo512 said:
hungry_bunny said:
Puty said:
Kanic said:
I think that was a filler (that I had the bad luck of watching)
Still, we aggree that there this war wasn't depicted absolutely correctly. At least the story progresses. So let's see.
Really? I could swear it was at the end of some of the anime episodes(those mini-stories) when Kon stole Hanatarou's sword. I thought Kubo had something to do with them.
...Just to inform. Hanatarou DID have a powerful bankai. The same we saw in a filler.
In Volume 22 and 23, between chapters, Kubo Tite drew a small side-story about Kon (stuck in Hanatorou's gigai/fake body). Kon accidentally released Hanatorou's bankai and blew away dozens of shinigami, which Kenpachi saw... it ended up with Kenpachi trying to pick a fight with Kon...
I think you mean Shikai. Hanataro doesn't have Bankai.Hmm, the reason I'm confused about that is the weird looking shape it has after the release... a small scalpel. If you count the sword with a bar on it's side his normal sword and the scalpel a released shikai then I guess that would make sense, I imagined there being a third weaker state, cause that healing power is unusually powerful in itself. In any case, it's a powerful Getsuga Tensho looking blast no matter what level it is.
The problem with Hanatarou's shikai is that its VERY impractical to the point that its useless in real fight - just how likely it is for the any sort of opponent to allow Hanatarou to build up the healing bar for that attack?
Its pretty much an one-trick pony that is only viable in certain situations(ala Avenger's phantasm in Fate/HA)dashiawia said:
j0x said:
darkwap said:
Anyone think Kyouraku will be the next commander leader? He was the one to calm the rest down. Then again it could be anyone else. Ichigos Dad? perhaps Urahara Keisuke.
we have yet to know the process of selecting a captain commander though so lets see, is Kyouraku's power level thesame as Yamamoto though?
Doubt it. He's likely to be much inferior to Yamamoto. Recall that he needed Ukitake to just stalemate Yamamoto in the SS arc. He's probably the second strongest Captain in the SS after Yamamoto though.
Actually nope. The second strongest is Unohana(her stats are pretty much maxed, and she is the third strongest SS shinigami after Aizen and Yamaji, in the total stat number and she is listed as having stronger offense than Yamaji), who is also now the oldest captain in SS, but Shunsui seems to be far more of a "natural-born leader", so its really either unohana or shunsui who will become the next CC.
- #10
Byakuya still alive? After all this "no, he's really dead, seriously, guys".
Oh, wounded Ukitake, too bad we hadn't been so lucky to even see his opponent. Geez, just what the hell, could it be possibly any more lame?
- #12
PirateKingz said:
Knowing Kubo, I wouldn't be surprised if Yamamoto somehow comes back. The way I see it, if there's no corpse then it's not a confirmed death.
Are you kidding me? OF COURSE there's no corpse! We've seen Yama-jii get blown into particles with some leg and arm bits left here and there!!
After he gets cut in half and his arm gets cut off, he then shoots at him. But we see nothing of him or the area he was shot down in afterward. Knowing Kubo, he's probably gonna make that awesome death scene useless and slap us all in the face by bringing him back. I would love it him Yama stayed dead. That was a very cool death scene. I guess we shall see. I believe that he is dead. It's seemingly obvious at this point, but Kubo will probably find a way to bring him back.
- #13
- Wow...Doggie Kruger (Aka: Komamura) lost an ear; Kyoraku lost his eye against that gunner; Ukitake, Toshi and Mugu gets bandages?!
- I give Kyoraku a lot of credit for being the adult in the room.
- Byakuya (?!) and Kenny are alive? But it looks like they they're getting the worst treatment...like they permanently handicapped (coma?) That's sad, Kenny got beaten by that twin..