Bleach Chapter 474 Discussion

Good Chapter, however i don't think this is the big "twist" people keep talking about, but simply more build up; because while i agree about what I've read that limiters aren't that big of a deal considering all captains and such use them anyway but from what i got out of it is since he said everyone knew; so does that mean people like Rukia or Renji knew? which could create a trust issue because Ginjou said they are leaving him to die which implies that its not just monitoring but manipulating and then disposing which if true and everyone like Rukia and such went along with it would be truly messed up. Some other things that i wonder about is why suddenly Byakuya (from the last chapter) put such importance in Ichigo saying he would cut down all his enemies with no remorse; also why would they all come for him and if i remenber Hitsugaya was trying to tell him something but was cut off which leads me to believe that the true twist is yet to be told. In any case if for nothing else i look forward to the next chapter for Ichigo's bankai, i kind of hope its different but at the same time the old one was good the way it was so if they change it they might ruin it like with that horrible design for the full bring.

Kso...

Ukitake being the "evil" one? I'm not buying it. I can imagine him being part of some "plan" or "organization" (with kinda good intentions), created to "deal" with sub-soulreapers and their powers and the way they can affect SS (or maybe using them to change smth in SS), but the "evil" one... Also I can not see other captains, who've become Ichigo's friends, being "so" blind about Jyuushirou. Okay, Aizen was Aizen, after all - and now you suggest Ukitake outsmarted everyone else by 'himself'? Especially with all of those mysteries, like Rukia's erased memory and Hitsugaya's glares? If Ukitake is really behind some great plan - he's definitely not alone in it.

If he's not, than what do we have later? SS fighting against each other (Ichigo's side vs Ukitake's side)? No, it'd be too boring.

Come on, Kubo, get a grip, it would be just so lame and it'd spoil one of your best characters! Such turn of events is SO below you.



I can see Jyuushirou having some shadows. No one is perfect and saint. And he is too old to live without some secrets of himself. He is also a captain - and that brings responsibility and the duties you can't ignore - even if you have to lie or withhold the truth sometimes. But - ARGH - him falling so low is just BEYOND my imagination.



I think even this small piece of truth leads us closer to the King's arc. I can so imagine Ukitake being part of a plan to "overthrow" the mysterious King or smth like that. But, truly,a PART only. This way the talk with Aizen, when he was leaving SS, makes sense. Too arrogant as in 'aren't you believing too much in your own abilities to do it?"



Anyway, Ukitake, I'm still loving you as long as Shunsui will be by your side, you poor old sick man. Ahaha. I'll believe in you till the end. And if you're really evil, ah... to hell with canon it'd be.

Avalie said:
OK for what it's worth, this 'revelation' isn't really a revelation at all. Everyone already knows that SS controls ALL its shinigamis when they leave SS, because their high spiritual powers will set the material world into an imbalance. Nothing is surprising so why is every character in there acting as if it's such a huge revelation, including Ishida? Their eyeballs are all O_O O_O O_O!!! !!! Having a monitoring device does not lead to the conclusion that your friends are leaving you to die. What sort of stupid logic is that? Sigh. And Ukitake being the evil person? I'm never buying that.



Ginjou's 'truth' is lame. So it has to be a lie, right? So what is the REAL truth? People spent one week waiting for 'the truth' and then it turns out this chapter isn't 'it'. Kubo, stop wasting time and get to the point! I'm sick of Ginjou, his hair and his ridiculous outfit.



1 . Its not the full truth. Urahara would not be nervous for such a simple stuff. Also Ginjou was INTERRUPTED by Ichigo, so I guess Ginjou wastes ichigo's bankai next chapter (since Ichigo released first) and continues talking.



2. Ishida was not scared about the truth itself that moment. he was nervous on how KUROSAKI himself will react to that. The guy went through two betrayals in this arc already(one being fake by everyone and one by ginjou). He is not exactly in a stable position to hear out YET ANOTHER betrayal story.



Wasabi said:
So... what? Was Aizen in on it the whole time? Or was he not aware of Ukitake's "plan"? Was it all part of SS's "big picture" to have Ukitake slip him the badge and Aizen purposely turn himself into a villain for the master plan? Was the rest of the divisions in on it too? Were Rukia and the rest completely duped or did they full acknowledge this plan? Why didn't Urahara mention anything or was he a SS plant all along? Keikaku doori for SS the whole time? God I hope not. It'll just seem like another "I made you into what you are" ass pull like with Aizen.

No. You see, Aizen or no Aizen. Ichigo would still get the badge had he survived. Ukitake just most likely have spewed different reasoning like "take this, this will shield you from being located by SS forces when in real world" or something.



icegenie said:


Im guessing that Ginjo became 'bad' in Soul Society's viewpoint and hence some conflict happened.

My guess is that Ginjou learned something about SS(just like Urahara and Aizen did) and SS then bassically destroyed his life trying to take him down for that knowledge.



Explicitz said:
Took him long enough to unleash his Bankai. Another 20 chapters and we might see his Hollow Mask take form.



Except that Ichigo going bankai now means Ginjou is way stronger. :)



kimchuy said:
IMO, I think those weren't the "whole" big twist of the story. I could say, Ginjo spewed half or maybe 1/4 of the truth. As Ishida said, "The worst scenario is if neither of those were true". We just can't assume that what this chapter had offered is the big f**king twist". I also want to hear the SS side of the story...and what are Isshin's thoughts, especially Urahara's?



For this chapter, I love the ending...can't wait to see Ichigo's bankai. Is it "the same", or different?



^



this.



Ichigo bassically interrupted Ginjou''s speech.l We will learn more.

wow..x.x



ginjo, just go die. =.=



Ichigo Bankai at the end, epic.

Monad said:
Stupid shit. Seriously Kubo should stop with all the surprised faces drawing. They where making faces like he told him that SS killed his mother or something. So what if it was a fucking monitor device? The guy had a captains power and was a human not under the command of SS. SS has a duty to perform so i don't see what's the big deal if they want to keep taps on him. That doesn't mean they ain't his friends or anything. It means absolutely nothing. Is not a betrayal is not anything and making those stupid over-surprised faces or drawing Ukitake in the shadows like some evil dude and having Ginjo talking with a style like he unleashed the biggest conspiracy ever and telling him that he shouldn't be fighting him is absolutely ridiculous. Ishida making overcomplicated too much of thinking about nothing also. 

Normally by their laws a creature like him shouldn't exist anyway. The fact that they let him get on with his life and simply monitor him just to be safe shows that they pretty much are ok with him. 



And us as readers didn't we already pretty much knew this shit since no one really had any idea what that badge was? Wasn't rather obvious that SS will want to know what the hell his up-to when they monitor generally everyone? 



In further news little Jorge(an elementary school kid) discovered that his parents didn't really give him a cell phone so he can be as cool as the other kids but because they actually wanted to be able to check up on him. The HUGE revelation has brought panic to little Jorge and his friend faces. DAMN THOSE EVIL PARENTS!! They never loved him!!! Should little Jorge now fight and kill his evil parents?

Lol give me a fucking break.



Haters will always be haters.



We as audience see a clearer picture than the characters in the story. We have the luxury to flip back past chapters and look at everyone's perspective. So please think before saying things like 'why is everyone looking so shocked when everything is so obvious?!?' Ishida doesn't know much about ukitake. Nor is he making things too complicated. These are questions that most readers will ask. And this means that the answers to these questions will be provided later. Ichigo din think much about the badge either. He doesn't think too much of his role as a substitute Shinigami. All he wants to do is to protect his friends and family.



Plus him being 'surprised' doesn't mean that he doubts his friends. He is most probably 'surprised' because he would never think that he would hear such words (regarding his friends) being uttered.



Also, as I mentioned earlier, Ichigo hates it when people badmouth about his friends. Probably the sole reason that caused him to go into rage mode. I wouldn't believe that he let what Ginjo say get in his head because he knows that there are things that he doesn't want to tell even the people he trust and of cos the same people will have things that they feel is better not to tell him (yet). Rmb the conversations Ichigo and Rukia had before fighting Fisher, and also Ichigo and his dad while fighting Aizen...











Andddd this new revelation about Ukitake makes my crazy guess last week seem more possible now... LOL!

Fai said:
Also this makes me have doubts on how Kaien's death happened, to be exact was Ukitake TRULY "too sick' to fight the hollow there or if he wanted Kaien, possibly part of the kurosaki bloodline(old speculation considering the whole noble houses stuff of shiba) to be gone?



Now that you mentioned it, I'm also having doubts on Kaien's death. It was "too" convenient when Ukitake's sickness struck him at the moment he attacked Metastacia, that was fused with Kaien at that time.



Also, I was quite bothered by the description Tite Kubo gave to Kaien Shiba in Bleach Official Character Book Souls..."Kaien values friendship above everything else. His spirit of kindness lingers on today"...hmmm, sounds like Ichigo??? It was also stated that Ichigo closely resembles Kaien in appearance. Byakuya Kuchiki has also noted the resemblance.



And there's the former noble house of the Shiba clan. What happened to the clan once revered as the 5th noble family, having prestige along the lines of the Kuchiki and Shihoin family; and now only has 2 surviving members??? Is this part of Ukitake's agenda???



Fai said:
And Ukitake somehow had tools form noble families to destroy sokyoku?



That also...Ukitake and Kyoraku used the Shihoin Shield to destroy the Sokyoku, right? However, the status of the Shihoin clan after Yoruichi's defection is still unknown. So, it's still vague as to how they (especially Ukitake) acquired the shield.

it didn't really matter who the culprit is. this manga is really not that much fun to read. the plot is not that engaging.

1. who said this was the 'big revelation'? Definitely not Kubo. Please do not assume things by yourselves and then get disappointed by the lack of expectations and then blame someone else.



2. The badge is not a fucking GPS for god's sake. There is a difference between a monitoring device and a GPS. Go google it for yourselves.



3. Again, alll the hate based on ONE chapter. Werent you taught not to jump into conclusions when you were young?





IMO, it was unexpected yet expected. Ukitake. Really surprised me at the moment when he was mentioned, considering he is a really minor character amongst the captains. However, with that, I noticed there is a trend that Kubo loves to use the most passive characters and changes them into someone unexpected. Aizen for example. Though we know he was sneaking around godknowswhat in the beginning, we never knew he was the mastermind of it all. And even though he was protrayed as the villain, in the end we know that maybe Aizen wasnt the villain at all. (Maybe it's the soul king.) But please let's not start a discussion on this and digress from the topic. My point is, like others and Ishida have mentioned, Ukitake might not be the villain after all. We know very well to take the words of a 'villain' (Ginjo) with a pinch of salt and Im hoping that Ichigo doesnt let this get into his head either.



Though Im not really sure if Ichigo was tempted by Ginjo and hence the bankai. I would think that Ichigo is becoming angry at his words, since Ginjo bad-mouthed his shinigami friends.. And wanted to settle the fight ASAP.



Looking forward to the next chapter. Seeing how his shikai has changed, cant wait to see the new form of Zangetsu when its in bankai mode. (:



chanotek said:
DarthObsidian said:
I don't really get why this is supposed to be a such a  big revelation or why it would make the Soul Society look like the bad guys.



The badge suppressing Ichigo's power makes perfect  sense, seeing as how captains and liutenants have their powers suppressed by like 80% when they come to earth, so it's reasonable to do the same to Ichigo.  And it's reasonable to want to keep track substitutes since they're not officially part of the Gotei 13, so it makes sense to keep an eye on them in case they get into trouble or become threats. I really hope there's more to this "revelation".this



grar564 said:
So Soul Society was controlling, whats the big deal??



And it only rly applies to Ichigo if he decides to go berserk and they use it to kill him...



this.



Shinigamis will always be cautious, because they not only protect soul society, they also try to maintain the human world and hollow world. It could never hurt to be more careful than careless.



Im guessing that Ginjo became 'bad' in Soul Society's viewpoint and hence some conflict happened.