Berserk Chapter 350 Discussion
- Thread starter eprins
- Start date
- #2
But if these same people sacrificed their family to supernatural demon gods?
You're assuming that she even remembers the Eclipse coherently. We don't know what she remembers about it yet. So far all we've seen are fragmented memories whenever someone touches her sexually, and they seem to be more "I didn't like this, this was not a good thing" reminders (hence her reacting violently and attacking willy-nilly) than specific "Griffith did this to me" memories. What we DID see in this chapter - which is pretty much the first time we've seen Griffith in Casca's memories at all - is that she remembers the things she admired about Griffith. Perhaps that will change in the next chapter, but it does make it clear that she remembers the good times.
Seriously, go back to book 22, when they encounter Griffith in the sword graveyard. She doesn't react negatively to him. Her brand does, but Casca herself does not. Or go back to book 21, when Griffith is re-born. She reaches for him and stares at him in wonder.
Again, I do not want Casca to seek out Griffith, and I think it would be a huge mistake if Miura goes in that direction. But from what we've seen so far, I think it's a possibility. Whether this turns out to be because she wants to confront him and understand what happened, or if she feels a connection with him because of her child, or anything else, is to be seen.
ashfrliebert said:
I'm not saying that she's going to hate him and want to burn his insides like Guts does, there's a 95% chance she isn't going to. The series has clearly been building up to the fact that she isn't want to go down Guts revenge filled path of self-destruction against her former idol and savior. That is VERY different from wanting to JOIN him.
Actually I think it's quite possible she'll hate Griffith and want to kill him or at least stop him. :) Honestly, we haven't had a chance to see how her feelings towards Griffith changed after the Eclipse, since she's been demented Casca ever since. She didn't know what he was capable of to fulfill his ambitions - hell, none of them did - but she knows now. IF she regains her memories, IF she's able to process them rationally, and IF she becomes like her old self again, I don't see why she wouldn't think Griffith needs to be stopped. She, Guts, and Rickert are the only humans who know what Griffith is truly capable of, and I think that would motivate her to do something about him. I agree she probably would not want Guts to go down a revenge-filled path of self destruction, but at the very least, she'll want to do something.
But those are some pretty big ifs. What if she mentally blocks out those memories, or decides it was some kind of nightmare? Casca was always torn between Guts and Griffith. We even see it in this chapter, when she remembers their last duel and how she felt helpless to get between them. If she doesn't remember the Eclipse completely, I think it's possible that she will find herself conflicted between Griffith and Guts again. I think it's extremely unlikely she'll ever want to join Griffith again (at least I hope not, and I will consider her character ruined if she does), but I think it wouldn't be unfeasible that she'd want to at least confront him face-to-face before deciding.
ashfrliebert said:
My argument against this is that not having her know the truth wouldn't get us anywhere from a narrative perspective. What's the point? Where would that get us?
As I mentioned above, I think this would put Casca in the middle of the Guts/Griffith conflict again. It would give it more nuance than just "Griffith evil, must kill Griffith." Not that I think this would change Guts's mind or his mission - if anything, it would probably motivate him even more to go after Griffith - but it might change their approach to letting her confront Griffith on her own first, instead of charging into Falconia with swords drawn. It would also give them a chance to see Falconia and realize the evil that's lurking beneath the shiny surface. Part of the problem right now is that Griffith is lord and savior for quite a lot of people. Even if they succeed in killing him, they'll never be able to live in peace, assuming they even manage to get away safely. What they really need to do is unmask Griffith and reveal his intentions and motivations. Guts is not very interested in doing that, but Casca might be.
Personally, I don't want the story to go this way. I just think it's a possibility.
zodd0 said:
Don't forget that besides Griffith raping Casca and killing her friends, he also corrupted the fetus within her and made it into a demon thingy. Griffith basically took Cascas child from her, and I can't imagine that her motherly instincts will have nothing but fury and hate left for Griffith.
But, in a way, he also IS her child. Again, from what we've seen of Casca's and Griffith's interactions, she isn't exactly harboring hate or fury for him. If anything, she seems quite fascinated by him. I'm hoping that might change if the mysterious kid that's following them around gets explained more.
- #3
ashfrliebert said:
To Casca, Griffith murdered nearly all their former comrades, decided to be the Commander of a Legion of incomprehensible demons and assaulted her. I don't understand all this "Casca and Griffith" theorist.
Logically you're right but never understimate people's ability to do the same/some/worse mistake(s) because emotions/feelings/memories. In my opinion I can understand if she still is into Griffith even with that rape in the eclipse, at the end all depends of the mangaka.
exactly. she might have liked it, you know.
- #5
It doesn't make any logical sense, but it does make emotional sense. Griffith was the person she idolized beyond anyone in the world for a very long and significant period of her life.
That kind of bond doesn't break very easily, especially since strong emotions tend to linger more than specific memories. On top of that, Casca is currently reverted back to her most basic, childlike state. Like a child who has been raped by a trusted adult, she probably has a lot of very confusing and conflicting emotions about Griffith. There are plenty of real-life examples of children who were raped by parents or other guardians and stuck with them for years, often well into adulthood.
But if these same people sacrificed their family to supernatural demon gods? The sheer WTFness of that completely broke her mind and to suggest that not only would she would process that, but be all on board with going back is insane. There is no real world comparison to what happened at the eclipse, there is no real world comparison to what was *seen* at the eclipse.
This is alot different than "closest, most admirable person in the world for years raped me", it's ALSO "most admirable person in the world turned into the anti-christ before my very eyes". If she couldn't process, no way should she be able to accept it. If ANYTHING could break a close bond, it would HAVE to be your savior and idol doing pretty much the WORST thing possible.
I'm not saying that she's going to hate him and want to burn his insides like Guts does, there's a 95% chance she isn't going to. The series has clearly been building up to the fact that she isn't want to go down Guts revenge filled path of self-destruction against her former idol and savior. That is VERY different from wanting to JOIN him.
It's also quite possible that, now that Griffith has come back looking exactly like his old self, Casca's fragile mental state might push her to accept an alternate reality where the Eclipse never happened and it was all just a bad dream. I can see it happening the same way people develop Dissociative Identity Disorder or Stockholm Syndrome - something so traumatic happens, that the person's mind shatters and does whatever mental gymnastics it must do in order to cope with it. I am hoping this is not the case, though, since Casca is a strong character who has survived all sorts of trauma already. Surely she can accept the truth without breaking again?
I agree that *this* is a reasonable possibility for her character to go through. Judging by everything she is, as a character, it's not impossible.
My argument against this is that not having her know the truth wouldn't get us anywhere from a narrative perspective. What's the point? Where would that get us? Guts suffering more? Surely there are more ways to make Guts and Casca relationship complicated, or have Guts suffer than to have Casca forget the most vital moment of the series.
- #9
You're assuming that she even remembers the Eclipse coherently. We don't know what she remembers about it yet. So far all we've seen are fragmented memories whenever someone touches her sexually, and they seem to be more "I didn't like this, this was not a good thing" reminders (hence her reacting violently and attacking willy-nilly) than specific "Griffith did this to me" memories.
Again, I do not want Casca to seek out Griffith, and I think it would be a huge mistake if Miura goes in that direction. But from what we've seen so far, I think it's a possibility. Whether this turns out to be because she wants to confront him and understand what happened, or if she feels a connection with him because of her child, or anything else, is to be seen.
But those are some pretty big ifs. What if she mentally blocks out those memories, or decides it was some kind of nightmare? Casca was always torn between Guts and Griffith. We even see it in this chapter, when she remembers their last duel and how she felt helpless to get between them. If she doesn't remember the Eclipse completely, I think it's possible that she will find herself conflicted between Griffith and Guts again. I think it's extremely unlikely she'll ever want to join Griffith again (at least I hope not, and I will consider her character ruined if she does), but I think it wouldn't be unfeasible that she'd want to at least confront him face-to-face before deciding.
What would something like this would actually MEAN for the story. What would be the *point*?
Is Guts going to convince Casca that events we already know happened, happened? Would this honestly be satisfying? Would there actually be a point? Wouldn't proving that demons slaughtered all your comrades be time-consuming to someone without the prior memories? Or, I don't know, impossible?
I get being conflicted about Griffith, or hating him, or not. I mean, the relationship and situation that Guts, Casca, Griffith and all the disembodied limbs of the band of hawks were in is a pretty..hard one to swallow down.
But still..joining him after everything he's done?? Not seeing it. At least with Rickert, even knowing all he knows, it makes sense IF he would have gone that route. The rest of the world is hell and he has more than himself to look over and care about with Erica. But that world is one Casca is going to have to live in for the rest of her life (or Griffith's at least), because she was you know..branded by Griffith.
What we DID see in this chapter - which is pretty much the first time we've seen Griffith in Casca's memories at all - is that she remembers the things she admired about Griffith. Perhaps that will change in the next chapter, but it does make it clear that she remembers the good times.
We know Guts remembers the good times too, back in one of those times Scheireke probed Guts mind. It's just that, you know, he also slaughtered his comrades too.
As I mentioned above, I think this would put Casca in the middle of the Guts/Griffith conflict again. It would give it more nuance than just "Griffith evil, must kill Griffith." Not that I think this would change Guts's mind or his mission - if anything, it would probably motivate him even more to go after Griffith - but it might change their approach to letting her confront Griffith on her own first, instead of charging into Falconia with swords drawn.
Literally all this would fit with or without the amnesia part.
See that's the thing, this sorta would just feel..artificial to me? As in, the whole point of Casca mind breaking was that she COULDN'T handle what she saw or been through. Fixing that problem WITHOUT having her acknowledge what she had gone through feels pretty pointless. And kinda like a copout for something that's taken 24 and a half volumes. Why wait longer instead of being done now?
zodd0 said:
Don't forget that besides Griffith raping Casca and killing her friends, he also corrupted the fetus within her and made it into a demon thingy. Griffith basically took Cascas child from her, and I can't imagine that her motherly instincts will have nothing but fury and hate left for Griffith.
But, in a way, he also IS her child. Again, from what we've seen of Casca's and Griffith's interactions, she isn't exactly harboring hate or fury for him. If anything, she seems quite fascinated by him. I'm hoping that might change if the mysterious kid that's following them around gets explained more.
Seriously, go back to book 22, when they encounter Griffith in the sword graveyard. She doesn't react negatively to him. Her brand does, but Casca herself does not. Or go back to book 21, when Griffith is re-born. She reaches for him and stares at him in wonder.
He is her child in metaphysical, magical way. So it makes sense that a mentally ill mute would intercept Griffith that way. A Casca who doesn't actually even KNOW who Griffith is. Or how to eat food. And whose only words are UAAAH, WAAAH, and UGAAAH.
But that Griffith hosted her child's body, or whatever he does, shouldn't mean anything to someone who can remember that this is the same guy that destroyed just about everything she's ever had. Regardless of whether not he's connected to her child in some way, he's still Femto. In the only reason he's connected to her child is because he raped her to be reborn and bring hell on earth. Just talking about Griffith, I'm seeing pretty much no reason for Casca to back to him. Pretty terrible guy, all things considered.
- #10
And to everyone saying that Casca can't possibly want to see Griffith, why not? She didn't say what she wanted to do once she met the person. Maybe she wants to ask Griffith why, maybe she needs to confront her largest fears (like she's been doing with the black monsters) in order to recover. Or maybe she wants to kill him herself. The point is we don't know for sure.
- #13