Bleach Chapter 474 Discussion

reaght said:
Well i guess you really can't trust the calm and collective characters. Was a bit of a deja vu for me seeing Ukitake as the culprit. Therefor i'm not really that shocked like I was with Aizen's 'betrayal'(coming to his senses).

Actually when I think about it, THE TIMING of Aizen deciding to act is also interesting now.

The ukitake dialogue back then seemed like Aizen messed up some sort of plan somehow with his actions.  And then Aizen calls ukitake arrogant.



reaght said:
Though I wonder what Yamamoto does in all of this, he should be the top dog of soul society. Anyway really looking forward to the full truth. Maybe i'll even skip this part of the manga so i can be surprised in the anime like the good old days...

he follows orders. EVERYONE in ss follows orders. The problem is that orders and laws of ss are based upon a feudal japan society, which is basically authoritarian military state suppressing everything the ideals and laws hold bad.



The wholepoint of all arcs so far was that while SS has decent people and likeable captain members, THE SYSTEM ITSELF is "evil".

kimchuy said:
Fai said:
Also this makes me have doubts on how Kaien's death happened, to be exact was Ukitake TRULY "too sick' to fight the hollow there or if he wanted Kaien, possibly part of the kurosaki bloodline(old speculation considering the whole noble houses stuff of shiba) to be gone?



Now that you mentioned it, I'm also having doubts on Kaien's death. It was "too" convenient when Ukitake's sickness struck him at the moment he attacked Metastacia, that was fused with Kaien at that time.



Also, I was quite bothered by the description Tite Kubo gave to Kaien Shiba..."Kaien values friendship above everything else. His spirit of kindness lingers on today"...hmmm, sounds like Ichigo??? It was also stated that Ichigo closely resembles Kaien in appearance. Byakuya Kuchiki has also noted the resemblance.



And there's the former noble house of the Shiba clan. What happened to the clan once revered as the 5th noble family, having prestige along the lines of the Kuchiki and Shihoin family; and now only has 2 surviving members??? Is this part of Ukitake's agenda???



Fai said:
And Ukitake somehow had tools form noble families to destroy sokyoku?



That also...Ukitake and Kyoraku used the Shihoin Shield to destroy the Sokyoku, right? However, the status of the Shihoin clan after Yoruichi's defection is still unknown. So, it's still vague as to how they (especially Ukitake) acquired the shield.



Thats not all.



rukia was sent to human world before by ukitake

she had her memory erased about it

Fai said:
icegenie said:


Im guessing that Ginjo became 'bad' in Soul Society's viewpoint and hence some conflict happened.

My guess is that Ginjou learned something about SS(just like Urahara and Aizen did) and SS then bassically destroyed his life trying to take him down for that knowledge.



But the thing is Ichigo relies his powers on the badge, while Ginjou relies his powers on that crucifix. So Ginjou was able to avoid being controlled, while Ichigo can be restrained!



So then Ginjou i believe has to first help Ichigo get rid of that restraining device and then he can decide if he should join side with Ginjou ...





Please let me know what you think about my opinions that i wrote into my post before your post. Was editing while you posted so not sure you've read my theories. I got some questions in there which you might have some reasonable answers for.

Is Ukitake a little evil?

If so, I will be kinda depressed.

Fai said:
  

1 . Its not the full truth. Urahara would not be nervous for such a simple stuff. Also Ginjou was INTERRUPTED by Ichigo, so I guess Ginjou wastes ichigo's bankai next chapter (since Ichigo released first) and continues talking.



2. Ishida was not scared about the truth itself that moment. he was nervous on how KUROSAKI himself will react to that. The guy went through two betrayals in this arc already(one being fake by everyone and one by ginjou). He is not exactly in a stable position to hear out YET ANOTHER betrayal story.





1. Like I said, the 'truth' is lame because it's NOT surprising. Also note that I used apostrophes in my previous post and also now.



2. I did not say Ishida was scared. I was saying why were they acting so SURPRISED, including Ishida. If after over 400 chapters Ichigo chooses to believe Ginjou, the person who has just expressly betrayed him after 2 weeks, over the bonds he had built with his SS friends over 2 years who have repeatedly saved him in HM and NOW, then he fails. It just shows he has learned absolutely nothing from his fighting encounters and verbal exchanges with Aizen. Yes, it's so traumatic for him to have gone through 'two' betrayals. He should get over himself and stop feeling victimised.

Peralisc said:


I think he means that Ichigo goes insane right now, because there's too much crap he has to put up with lately. Which does explain why some in here think he will start kicking everyone's ass and be like a sort of Hulk ... LOL!

Not insane but unstable.



He is basically "WTF DO I DO" and does not know neither what to feel nor what to do or say and its easier to just shout shut up to everyone and lash out at ginjou.



He will cool down eventually in chapter or two and either ginjou or Urahara will continue talking.  he is just incapable to handle yet another "oh shit everyone betrayed me" plot after two happened before within less than a week of time.

T'was epicsauce. Loved it. OMG UKITAKE SERIOUSLY/???????/



I demand an explanation. NAOW.



Oh, and 5/5

Déjà vu

zzzz move along already.