Bleach Chapter 474 Discussion
- Thread starter xkai
- Start date
- #19
And hungry_bunny made a very important point :
hungry_bunny said:
I believe that the thing being tested by Ginjo isn't only Ichigo's trust in SS, the reader's trust is being tested as well, perhaps it's a way to make it easier to relate to the doubts that could be growing within Ichigo.
back to my dear friend.
Lol. Did Kubo said it was Chapter 474?
Arashi89 said:
Again, why you're so sure that "It is just the start/unveiling of a whole new part of the big picture"? You're not in Kubo's head and you have no idea how the next chapter will develop. For all we know, it may be only action without talking.
Im not sure it will be the NEXT chapter. Please read between the lines. Obviously there would be much more explaining to do about Ukitake's involvement in the main plot.
It is very obvious why this is not The Big Revelation. This is obviously not the 'truth' that Isshin and Urahara were talking about in the beginning of the chapter as just mentioning Ukitake does not draw any lines to link him to Ichigo. Since Bleach is about Ichigo more than about SS, it's obvious that all things happening must relate to Ichigo.
Arashi89 said:
Very good, you've just proven my point. The badge is just a tracker and not some ominous device that controls him. Compared to the crimes SS has committed, this is irrilevant.
Wait, so your point now is that the badge doesnt control Ichigo's reiatsu? Please read page 12 again. According to mangastream's translation, the badge 'restricts' Ichigo. I do not know of any GPS that can restrict my movements. And if this doesnt mean that SS is the big brother, then I dont know what SS is purpose of giving Ichigo the badge.
Arashi89 said:
And it's funny that you pretend to accept different opinons when this whole paragraph was just you sorely dismissing mine without any basis.
Because you are so certain that Im just against you, you have missed out the fact that I disagree with others that Ichigo was swayed by Ginjo's words and hence the bankai. The reason why Im "dissing" is because while the rest of us are having a civilised discussion about the chapter, you come in here and say words like "Kubo is a worthless writer" and disrupt the discussion with "I can say whatever I want and you cant do anything about it". (Wikipedia: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.) Not that Im defending Kubo. I do not think that he is a perfect writer. In fact, I do Hate some characters to the core. However, some of them are essential to the main plot. It is the same as IRL. There are some people we get along with and others that just piss us off. Also the fact that you are here butthurt that we are discussing possibilities and you are thinking that we are talking about 'facts'. There's no harm in thinking what might come next. Thats the reason why Bleach is released weekly and not at 1 go. The 1 week period allows reader to anticipate the next chapter.
We all have times when we totally get disappointed by a chapter. We explain the reasons why rationally and if others have to differ, we discuss this is a civilized manner. I must admit that my tone towards you have been more agressive than others (not like you care). If you have disagreements with what Kubo have drawn, go ahead and voice it here and we will hear what you have to say. However, your posts have been more of disrupting the discussion as to saying whatever we are saying is wrong, rather than encouraging the discussion. If you can accomodate to this discussion, we would happily welcome you. But if you are sincerely out to spike us (i.e. with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response) then do not blame us for "dissing" you.
- #22
Ukitake?! Really? SO RANDOM. I hate when these things happen. Random conclusions annoy me so much.
A story is supposed to have some foreshadowing, at least when it's not Bobobobo!
Hate this.
So we find this so late in the story even when we already know that Soul Society fully and utterly trusts Ichigo so much that they allowed him to save them so many times. And so it doesn't even make a big deal even if it was true
Whatever. I hope this gets more reasonable later on and what Ginjo just said was crap. Ichigo better not beLIEve (liked that word play) what he said.
Because you didn't get the foreshadowing does not mean that it had none.
Ukitake have been shady since long ago.
Also the human world and the SS are completely different, something that could be considered evil for someone living in the human world could be considered justice in SS. That's because the human world is similar to ours while the SS is based off a feudal regime where freedom of speech is very limited and where power means everything.
I'm bothered by people considering the shinigamis as gods: they aren't.
I've seen a lot of time the 'wow human can fight gods, so retarded' argument and that comes from this simple misunderstanding.
Shinigami are no gods, they claim they are. They are a group of soul with power that does not care about the rest of the world.
They sugarcoat their actions like they were god's messenger but they are acting on their own belief, or rather they are imposing their belief on the whole world silencing anything that would go against them.
That's why Riruka is pissed off, shinigami are not superior to human yet they claim they are gods and are doing justice. When he was against Mayuri, Ishida himself showed us that a human's peak was not less stronger than a shinigami's, and peak is a strong word as he had very low battle experience at that point.
Tl;DR: SS has been evil since day 1, people got too much attached to the character which are nice but the society itself is evil.
- #24
I also think that some of Fai's point are wrong but you can't just brush every point he made aside on the basis that some of them were wrong.
Particuliary these:
- Kaien's utter reluctance and rejection of ukitake's offer to be his VC.
- Kaien's convenient death and Shiba clan's supposed possible connection to Kurosaki family.
- Rukia's first mission to real world, memories of which, SOMEHOW GOT ERASED FROM HER HEAD.
- Wonderweiss. Is said to be attracted to pure things and despise the "unclean things". What he did the moment he got to the scene? Skewered Ukitake.
+ the fact that Ukitake did lied to Ichigo.
We aren't saying that Ukitake is the mother of evil and a big asshole. We are not saying that he'll pull a big keikaku doori and reveal himself as a vilain. We are just saying that there's some shady business surrounding him since the start of the manga.
It isn't a black and white situation and with the system SS is based from something a human that live in the real world would consider evil could but justice in SS, moral and rules changes depending on the society.ALL of those points are circumstantial at best, but for some reason they've almost been presented here as evidence. Nothing is ever that certain in Bleach.
-Kaien explained his reluctance as him not feeling worthy of the title "since there are many people more worthy of a promotion like that than me".
-Kaien would have gone after that Hollow in any case, Ukitake did try to stop him at first but... that Hollow had killed Kaien's wife and so he was fighting for his honor.
-Who said Ukitake was the one that erased her memories, could have been Aizen... IF anything was erased.
-Wonderweiss didn't like Gin either when he came to talk to Tousen, or Urahara. Wonderweiss had a weird definition of what's "pure".
Maybe I'm being to one-sided, I've always argued for the shinigami being good guys after all... the question is, if any of those first points were given by someone who was objective or someone who only looked at the opposite angle of things, shoe-horning them into the fit of a theory.
I believe that the thing being tested by Ginjo isn't only Ichigo's trust in SS, the reader's trust is being tested as well, perhaps it's a way to make it easier to relate to the doubts that could be growing within Ichigo.
- #25
- Ukitake having sokyoku-destroying seals from unknown noble family - aka something Captains WOULD NOT have.
- Ukitake recognizing Ichigo's reiatsu.(byakyuya also did and now seems to hold Ichigo in quite high regard, but Ukitake handed Ichigo the badge after that)
- his dialogue with Aizen when Aizen was leaving.
- Kaien's utter reluctance and rejection of ukitake's offer to be his VC.
- Kaien's convenient death and Shiba clan's supposed possible connection to Kurosaki family.
- Ukitake handling Ichigo a badge saying some bullshit and NO ONE else recognising it.
- Ishida getting a VERY bad vibe about the badge.
- Chad noting that badge looks "ominous".
- His anouncement that he will be taking Captain-Commander's place for now(during arrancar arc) and his "death glare" when hitsugaya asks why him.
- His seeming disappointment that Captain Commander won't leave his position (and his two subordinates even noticed that).
- Rukia's first mission to real world, memories of which, SOMEHOW GOT ERASED FROM HER HEAD.
- His dialogue with shunsui during the top espada fight in fake karakura town.
- name of his sword,Sōgyo no Kotowari , bassically meaning, truth of pisces, aka twin/dual fishes.
- Wonderweiss. Is said to be attracted to pure things and despise the "unclean things". What he did the moment he got to the scene? Skewered Ukitake.
Wow, Fai. You really know your Bleach well.