Fairy Tail Chapter 463 Discussion

yaokitsme said:
"He was being worried for Natsu yet it is not what gray fanbois in this thread took from that scene. "Omg Gray was being reasonable and thought Natsu was stupid!"



Gray Fans are almost as bad as Slaine fans were in Aldnoah forums



You know what is upsetting? Gray not getting ANY consequences for a free power up and getting whitewashed for leaving Juvia without explanations to the point of her getting sick. That is what is upsetting."



yes you are right all gray fans know nothing except that he is the best developed character in the series and if you disagree you are wrong. gray meeting his dad after years thinking he was dead only to find out he was a zombie and died before his eyes clearly had no consequences (sarcasm) but natsu offscreen gaining a "1 shot zeref" skill is totally acceptable (laughable)



on topic: assuming this isnt the end id like this encounter to finally explain natsus age etc like during the laxus arc he couldnt get through freed's barrier



Natsu's age couldn't get past freed's barrier, wouldn't solve the other problem, because Gajeel couldn't get through the barrier either. Although I believe that it was because of the Dragons that were inside of the dragonslayers' bodies that prevented them from passing the rune barrier.



As for Natsu, I'm not sure if he does have the ability to one shot Zeref. He could have found a way, training with Gildartz, to store magical energy for the entire year. Though Natsu always had potential to grow immensely stronger whereas Gray's potential was limited, that's the reason Mashima gave him a power-up to stay relevant. Though this is my opinion.

AllenNoah said:
Darklight0303 said:
That is irrelevant to the point I am making. Doesn't matter who knows he's END. Natsu was CREATED with the purpose of defeating Zeref. So him naturally developing a move that could kill Zeref is much more believable, than a third party MIRACULOUSLY developing the perfect magic to counter END even though they have never met, seen, or fought said creature.

Not exactly.  Etherios are programmed to kill Zeref, yes, but it's more like they're given the instinct to kill Zeref, even if they themselves don't know it.  Hell, out of all of Tartaros Marde was the only one that actually had a measure to.  The others may have been able to hurt Zeref (I'm assuming he can be cut, drowned, poisoned, etc...although he did tell Mavis she'd live even with her head cut off so I dunno.  It hasn't really been established if he just has regular immortality or regenerative immortality.)  So Natsu's instinct for killing Zeref to me is no more or less valid than Silver's hatred for demons leading him to learn his magic (which by the way, he explicitly stated he learned it because he learned that E.N.D. is a fire demon it wasn't like he was born with it).



Darklight0303 said:
The most Silver can guarantee is that his magic is effective against Etherious beeings but that's not saying much given normal magic worked just fine in the end against the other Etherious as well. Heck he didn't even finish off Marde. Critically wound, yes but the one who actually killed Marde was Zeref.

It's not like Gray or Natsu couldn't have finished off Marde.  They were both just more focused with Acnologia/the Book of E.N.D. since Marde was incapacitated on the ground.



Darklight0303 said:
Another key difference between END and the other demons. He was made with the body of Zeref's brother as the core. Unlike the Other Etherious who could be resurrected ad nauseum as long as they had those pods and the books were intact.

And that means...what exactly when it comes to killing immortals?



Why do you bring up instinct? I am talking about ability potential. Something that Zeref himself guarantees given how he acts. Instinct has nothing to do with it. Cease your pathetic attempt to deviate for the core topic as an argument. Ability potential for Natsu dictates he has a higher chance of coming up with a move that will work against Zeref, than some reanimated corpse inventing magic that can take on a foe that they only know about from other people or records.



Both of which can be hugely unreliable and unable to encompass the full scope of an entity. I mean for fuck's sake Marde didn't even know Natsu was END. You're going to take anything he says about END at face value still? Heck even his plan to erase all magic. Odds are it wouldn't work at all. Since as Igneel himself said the book was not to be opened. MEANING it could be opened at any time.



Also lets not forget ACNOLOGIA is afraid of END. He clearly recognizes END as a threat. That alone speaks volumes of his power. Power that surpasses those weeny Tartaros punks



You do realize that every Etherious OTHER than END was a failure don't you? Zeref himself implied as much. =_= keep trying. Maybe you'll find a leg to stand on. Because right now you have none.

Theusis3 said:
Zerienga said:
BlueBaegon said:
This was a good chapter. I feel like the fight between Natsu and Zeref is too soon, especially because it's it's supposed to be very climactic and they still have 11 spriggans and tons of foot soldiers to beat up.

*Queue 10 chapter break from the Zeref v Natsu fight* ;)



Darklight0303 said:
TheGrandSage23 said:
Good chapter(7/10) but god Erza annoys me now and Mavis is being punked by Zeref.



This time this has nothing to do with being a me being a Gray fanboy or not. So don't try to use that angle. Gray was right to second guess. Erza has Natsu's(second favorite character after Post TS Lucy) manhood firmly inside her and it's been that way for too long. Trying make Gray seem like he's in the wrong with her "high and mighty our faith is all that matters bs" then Mavis just comes along and agrees.. No mention of Natsu being too gung ho. And you wonder how Zeref is punking Mavis so easily? This was one of the problems FT had(fixed it after the GMG arc for the most part) that "faith and friendship" was all that mattered to win and not power or skill.



The reason why this situation is better handled is because we know that Natsu is one of the strongest characters in the FT verse and that his power has grown immensely. He was specifically created to end Zeref's life however the thing is that we(the audience) know this not the characters. If Gray knew what Natsu was he wouldn't second guess but instead have faith in Natsu for logical reasons. Instead of having blind faith like Erza or Mavis for no reason whatsoever



I might believe what you say if Gray had not explicitly mentioned the Book of END. You know the same thing he was so gung ho about destroying EVEN THOUGH THE FREAKING HUNDRED IF NOT THOUSAND YEAR DRAGON SAID NOT TO!

Gray heard Igneel say this when? Oh, that's right. Igneel only told Natsu that while they were a few hundred or thousand feet in the air. Gray could totally hear that, right guys?



I usually just sit around and read everyone's opinions instead of commenting, but you posted something that is logically impossible.



Technically Gray wasn't around when Igneel said not to destroy the book of E.N.D.

And Natsu only told Gray that he promised Igneel to retrieve the book of E.N.D.

And Gray himself has made a promise to his father to destroy the book of E.N.D.

Both of them naturally conflict due to promises they made.

Erza is blindly trusting in Natsu. However you can see Mavis hesitate. She agrees with Erza as there isn't actually anything they can do about it, but simply trust in Natsu's judgement and abilities. They have other problems to think about.

If anyone believe there is a better idea, please share your thoughts. I just want to state that this is my own observations and opinion.



People usually don't have a problem with characters. They somehow just have a problem with and cannot ignore the fanboys of characters. e.g. Gray's hardcore fanboys apparently.



As for the fact if Gray finds out that Natsu is E.N.D. which he will find out eventually. He'll be faced with a dilemma, whether he will destroy Natsu or not. Can he save Natsu and destroy E.N.D. Is that possible? E.N.D. and Natsu are the same person. What happens when E.N.D. is awakened.



Looking forward to Mashima's writing.



It doesn't matter if Gray heard or didn't hear what Igneel told Natsu. First off Gray was there when Atlas Flame said that Igneel fought END 400 years ago but couldn't beat him. That alone gives Igneel more credence than some revived corpse who had nothing but second or third hand account knowledge of END. Someone who fought END VS Someone who only heard about END. It doesn't take a genius to figure out whose words are more valid.



Gray was anything but reasonable at that point in time. He wasn't thinking straight in the least. His whole vendetta against END is nothing more than a stopgap measure to keep Gray somewhat relevant Or else he'd end up just as detached from the main plotline as Erza.



First off END was sealed away hundreds of years before Deliora destroyed his village and killed his parents. IT wasn't like END ORDERED DEliora to do that. At most that would probably be Marde Geer's doing.



Second: The guarantee that Devil Slayer magic that Silver came up with can for sure take down END. On what basis? Silver was not around when END was active. He has never seen END in action, he has never fought END. And yet somehow this random magic can kill him. Zeref's finest creation for the purpose of killing him.



It's a joke and anyone buying into it literally is nothing more than a fool.





CookingPriest said:
> Implying END story will be about FodderGray and not Lucy



KEK.



Gray is there to be foderized by END, due to his unhealthy END obsession.  Lucy is there to save/stop Natsu. That's the only logical way this can go.



Yup pretty much and that moment can't come any sooner.

Zerienga said:
BlueBaegon said:
This was a good chapter. I feel like the fight between Natsu and Zeref is too soon, especially because it's it's supposed to be very climactic and they still have 11 spriggans and tons of foot soldiers to beat up.

*Queue 10 chapter break from the Zeref v Natsu fight* ;)



Darklight0303 said:
TheGrandSage23 said:
Good chapter(7/10) but god Erza annoys me now and Mavis is being punked by Zeref.



This time this has nothing to do with being a me being a Gray fanboy or not. So don't try to use that angle. Gray was right to second guess. Erza has Natsu's(second favorite character after Post TS Lucy) manhood firmly inside her and it's been that way for too long. Trying make Gray seem like he's in the wrong with her "high and mighty our faith is all that matters bs" then Mavis just comes along and agrees.. No mention of Natsu being too gung ho. And you wonder how Zeref is punking Mavis so easily? This was one of the problems FT had(fixed it after the GMG arc for the most part) that "faith and friendship" was all that mattered to win and not power or skill.



The reason why this situation is better handled is because we know that Natsu is one of the strongest characters in the FT verse and that his power has grown immensely. He was specifically created to end Zeref's life however the thing is that we(the audience) know this not the characters. If Gray knew what Natsu was he wouldn't second guess but instead have faith in Natsu for logical reasons. Instead of having blind faith like Erza or Mavis for no reason whatsoever



I might believe what you say if Gray had not explicitly mentioned the Book of END. You know the same thing he was so gung ho about destroying EVEN THOUGH THE FREAKING HUNDRED IF NOT THOUSAND YEAR DRAGON SAID NOT TO!

Gray heard Igneel say this when? Oh, that's right. Igneel only told Natsu that while they were a few hundred or thousand feet in the air. Gray could totally hear that, right guys?



I usually just sit around and read everyone's opinions instead of commenting, but you posted something that is logically impossible.



Technically Gray wasn't around when Igneel said not to destroy the book of E.N.D.

And Natsu only told Gray that he promised Igneel to retrieve the book of E.N.D.

And Gray himself has made a promise to his father to destroy the book of E.N.D.

Both of them naturally conflict due to promises they made.

Erza is blindly trusting in Natsu. However you can see Mavis hesitate. She agrees with Erza as there isn't actually anything they can do about it, but simply trust in Natsu's judgement and abilities. They have other problems to think about.

If anyone believe there is a better idea, please share your thoughts. I just want to state that this is my own observations and opinion.



People usually don't have a problem with characters. They somehow just have a problem with and cannot ignore the fanboys of characters. e.g. Gray's hardcore fanboys apparently.



As for the fact if Gray finds out that Natsu is E.N.D. which he will find out eventually. He'll be faced with a dilemma, whether he will destroy Natsu or not. Can he save Natsu and destroy E.N.D. Is that possible? E.N.D. and Natsu are the same person. What happens when E.N.D. is awakened.



Looking forward to Mashima's writing.

Aiko_Hiroshi said:
CookingPriest said:
GG, the gray fanbois are here wanking his jerkass behavior this chapter. One of many things on why I am not looking forward to Natsu failing in next few chapters. Gives those idiots more reasons to put that gary stu on pedestal.



Gray wasn't acting like a jerk, he was completely reasonable. He said the things he did because he cares about Natsu, who IS his best friend. This shouldn't be about wanking to either of them, but this is what people do with their favorite characters in an action shonen. Gray is far from my favorite character, but holy hot hell am I sick of seeing you and Darklight bitch about him every time he remotely does anything. There is literally nothing he can do that WON'T upset you.



He was being worried for Natsu yet it is not what gray fanbois in this thread took from that scene. "Omg Gray was being reasonable and thought Natsu was stupid!"



Gray Fans are almost as bad as Slaine fans were in Aldnoah forums



You know what is upsetting? Gray not getting ANY consequences for a free power up and getting whitewashed for leaving Juvia without explanations to the point of her getting sick. That is what is upsetting.

Darklight0303 said:
TheGrandSage23 said:
Good chapter(7/10) but god Erza annoys me now and Mavis is being punked by Zeref.



This time this has nothing to do with being a me being a Gray fanboy or not. So don't try to use that angle. Gray was right to second guess. Erza has Natsu's(second favorite character after Post TS Lucy) manhood firmly inside her and it's been that way for too long. Trying make Gray seem like he's in the wrong with her "high and mighty our faith is all that matters bs" then Mavis just comes along and agrees.. No mention of Natsu being too gung ho. And you wonder how Zeref is punking Mavis so easily? This was one of the problems FT had(fixed it after the GMG arc for the most part) that "faith and friendship" was all that mattered to win and not power or skill.



The reason why this situation is better handled is because we know that Natsu is one of the strongest characters in the FT verse and that his power has grown immensely. He was specifically created to end Zeref's life however the thing is that we(the audience) know this not the characters. If Gray knew what Natsu was he wouldn't second guess but instead have faith in Natsu for logical reasons. Instead of having blind faith like Erza or Mavis for no reason whatsoever



I might believe what you say if Gray had not explicitly mentioned the Book of END. You know the same thing he was so gung ho about destroying EVEN THOUGH THE FREAKING HUNDRED IF NOT THOUSAND YEAR DRAGON SAID NOT TO!



Natsu is a selfish arrogant bitch. I mean he doesn't even listen to his master, his comrades or his best friend. Don't ever accuse other characters of ever being selfish when Natsu is easily the most selfish and arrogant POS in the manga. His overconfidence will lead to his downfall, and even the people that believe in will not trust anymore, and i hope that happens where no one trusts in that plot riddle garbage character.

Who the fuck does he think he is that his move will take out one of the strongest beings in the universe?

his stupidity isn't surprising, he just gets getting dumber and dumber in the manga

and unfortunately mashima will keep wanking off as if he's the best thing since slice bread it's pathetic really.



He should be killed off because he's a weak bitch who gets constant asspull powerups?

Natsu was selfish asshole because he only listens to his own words and doesn't listen to anyone, fucking failed piece of shit.



I hope Zeref wrecks his pathetic ass. No one wants to see Lucy fighting off against END because it would be cliched romance crap. Gray soloing Natsu and END together is a much better outcome.



Gray is a way better character than that cliched generic luffy rip off *cough Natsu*



Pathetic Gray haters like you and that shithead cookingpriest are way worse than Natsu lmao

Okay.. so it's like seeing nothing.. next chapter please.

CookingPriest said:
Darklight0303 said:
AllenNoah said:




Somehow I knew you'd say that.  Now here's a fun little exercise: Get a pencil and piece of paper and write down everyone in-universe that knows that Natsu is E.N.D.  It's easy to forget that as viewers we naturally get to know more than the characters within the story.



That is irrelevant to the point I am making. Doesn't matter who knows he's END. Natsu was CREATED with the purpose of defeating Zeref. So him naturally developing a move that could kill Zeref is much more believable, than a third party MIRACULOUSLY developing the perfect magic to counter END even though they have never met, seen, or fought said creature.



The most Silver can guarantee is that his magic is effective against Etherious beeings but that's not saying much given normal magic worked just fine in the end against the other Etherious as well. Heck he didn't even finish off Marde. Critically wound, yes but the one who actually killed Marde was Zeref.



Another key difference between END and the other demons. He was made with the body of Zeref's brother as the core. Unlike the Other Etherious who could be resurrected ad nauseum as long as they had those pods and the books were intact.



So again Silver's words about defeating END with his magic are nothing but baseless wishful thinking with no supporting evidence.



^

This.

Gray's revenge quest END obsession is unhealthy bullshit and I damn hope he gets called out on that and suffer for it.



But then again, they already decided to remove consequences for Gray's deus ex machina powerup so hey.



...

Actually the whole secret technique thing makes me think Mashima MIGHT set up the plot that Natsu actually got his memories back during timeskip(and it would explain Lucy's reaction to him in  the gmg before sh eknew it was him). It would muddy waters a lot in a good way if what we saw of Natsu post-timeskip is already END.





I can't belive I JSUT read that. Now if I defend Gray I'm a fanboy. But I feel as we were not reading the same Manga. Gray has an unhealthy obsession. This both in and out universe came into his mind a year ago. If the persona we saw in the avatar arc was real I would agree but it was an act. He does have a personal vendetta, but it does not dominate his life or actions. It never did. I don't think he can fall to darkness, his backstory prevents it. He cannot become sauaske Uchida. Right before the war started we got a scene of him calm clearing focused on what he wanted.     What is really bizarr is that he is what can be called unhealthy, but not Juvia...... becasue all of her behaviors are Gray responsibility...



I mean geez why does everyone want him to be this clichés evil best friend archetype. What's so interesting about gray is that he keeps going against what I did expect.



Anyway I guess the real test will be when he finds punt who END is. That's some chapter 500 stuff likely. If gray is obsessed then he will go berserk on sight, but since he is 2 for 2 in not falling to darkness. Its more likely gonna come to him taking blow from natsu while Lucy tries to talk him out it.  Yes the story is coming down to the 3 of them