Berserk Chapter 355 Discussion
- Thread starter PumpkinKing10
- Start date
- #169
Aardwolf94 said:
CrimsonResonance said:
Aardwolf94 said:
CrimsonResonance said:
Aardwolf94 said:
WTF is wrong with the artstyle? Casca looks atrocious, like a generic moe character.
Yeah, she looked soooo much different in the Golden Age arc ar- OH WAIT
Aardwolf94 said:
And the Elf queen is stupid, to just send Casca to Guts in a pretty dress and not considering that she doesnt remember everything yet
She clearly remembers enough to tear up at the mention of Guts' name
Aardwolf94 said:
Miura is dragging this story to death
>has one piece rated a 10
First of, GA was 20 years ago so suddenly trying to go back to that style would be a regression anyway. And is that pic somehow supposed to prove your argument? WTF She still looks much more natural in the GA one, in the other one she looks so fake and annoyingly moe that its just sad to see what became of Miura's art. And compare Casca now with art from the MF arc..its ridiculous.
She clearly didn't remember enough, considering her reaction at the end.
Salty Berserk fans as usually, bringing up other manga because they can't stand their overrated shitty series to be bashed. How about discussing this series instead of bringing up by ratings of other series..oh wait thats too difficult right?
At least One Piece knows what it is, a great well done Shounen that uses the tropes well. The story is at times too dragged out (Fishman Island, Dressrosa) but it actually fits the overall story since its an adventure, first and foremost. Not to mention OP's world is much more interesting and fleshed out anyway (berserk is your typical generic fantasy setting, especially now).
OP stayed true to its roots while Berserk which started out as a compelling mature story with basically no typical tropes and it ended up being a shitty JRPG manga with cliche characters (Schierke, Isidro etc.) and annoying humor because the author turned soft.
The story being milked out doesn't fit here because you can clearly see that Miura is stretching it out with meaningless detours (sea god) and fights (dragged out attack on Vrtannis, beach etc. that take up whole volumes, same old boring Griffith vs Ganishka).
The female lead suffered as well and was retarded for 20 volumes for this reason which is a damm shame and the MC is no closer to the actual main goal everyone is waiting for (Guts vs Griffith). Short of asspulls how is Guts going to defeat Griffith/God Hand? Time for another 20 volumes to find out
This is basically Bleach levels of pacing.
If you honest to God think Casca looks less "moe" in the former pic then there's nothing more to say. You're letting your massive hate boner flat out blind you.
How the elf queen supposed to know of the trauma she experienced during the eclipse?
I was just trying to point out your hypocrisy. OP is 90% detours yet you seem to excuse it..
...aaaand there he goes off on a tangent.
"Berserk is your typical generic fantasy setting"
Meaningless buzzwords. Berserk has alot of fresh and unique concepts and it's alot bolder than its contemporary titles. It's world basically inspired Dark Souls, that should tell you how stand-out it is.
Berserk was always supposed to be a fantasy series, and it's still compelling and mature. Schierke is not cliche, she definitely has a lot more to her than "loli witch" as you put it. And Isidro was intentionally written to be like a cliche hot-headed arrogant shonen lead at first, so that he could realise he was in way over his head and humble himself later down the line. And the humour was there since the very first chapter lol
The Sea God arc did have a purpose, it showcased the after-effects of the astral world merge and introduced the character of Isma.
Also wtf Griffith vs Ganishka was anything but boring? It showed us the sheer breadth of Griffith's power and influence (and seeing him plough through thousands of kushans was quite satisfying) It was meant to invoke a sense of dread, like "shit, how's Guts possibly gonna take on this guy?"
You wanted Casca to be restored sooner? That would've drastically reduced the catharsis of her long-awaited return.
Miura said that Berserk is 60-70% complete btw
I could also say that your blind fanboyism is getting in the way of realizing how much more fake Casca looks in the second pic + you just ignored my points regarding the art improving a lot after the GA arc so there is no need to regress either way. Casca looks like a completely different character now
Elf queen is supposed to be smart. She knows for some reason she was retarded and they came to cure her. Obviously something bad happened, thats why Schierke and Farnese were sent into Casca's mind in the first place.
OP is an adventure, its supposed to be like that. Every Island is a new adventure and after each Saga there is a satisfying feeling. Thats not Berserk which is more connected, limited and has clearly been just stalling
The only unique aspects is with the whole God Hand/apostles/casuality part which has been basically shafted after the Conviction arc anyway. The magic system is generic JRPG esque & the mages are as cliche as it gets (looks, abilities etc.), the creatures (Trolls, fucking crocodiles etc.) are nothing interesting or fresh etc.
Never played Dark Souls but it was likely inspired by the more unique aspects.
No its not very mature & compelling anymore with 4 obnoxious comic relief characters, no tension, shallow characters, milked out story etc.
How is Schierke interesting? She is just the typical perfect & OP loli with with a crush on an older guy. She has no interesting flaws (like Casca in GA or even Farnese in Conviction) and is just a boring exposition machine.
Thats what I thought about Isidro as well, yet here we are after 20 volumes (when he first appeared) and he has had barely any meaningful development and he is still the cliche hot-headed arrogant shonen lead..he just likes his party members more now.
The humor used to be more natural and not in your face. Now with Isidro, flanderized Puck (not even a real character anymore), Magnificio, the other elf etc. its just way too much. The sea god arc could have been dark and interesting but because of the obnoxious comic relief and Team Rocket Pirates it was just lackluster.
Isma is another generic loli and the after affects could have been shown in a much better way instead of adding another detour with tons of mindless monster killing. As if thats not what Berserk has been since the troll shit
Because Griffith already had God Mode on, unlike the GA arc. There was no real suspense, it was just mindless battles until the end (which was great no doubt). The whole thing dragged on for like 10 volumes, yet could have been easily done in a few chapters & in a more subtle way. Seeing Griffith play God was fun the first time but repeating it so often just made the whole thing boring. still better than Guts story post Conviction though.
Lol, seems like Miura himself doesn't know how Guts can take on Griffith. There has been zero development on that front and in the last 18 volumes (since they last saw each other) he achieved nothing (in terms of finding any way to beat him) while Griffith basically changed the world and is a god now. Again short of an asspull, I doubt there is a way to defeat Griffith.
She should have returend way sooner, it should have been at best 10 volumes long. I think Schierke's mentor should have restored her and that would have been just fine. Turning the compelling female lead into a retard and plot device for 20 years (for "feels" purposes was just silly and cheap.
It was only done so Guts story regarding Griffith doesn't progress imho. Miura wanted Griffith to do his thing and if Casca was already cured, why the hell would Guts go on random adventures and not fight Griffith?
18 volumes were overall way too much for Guts and Griffith's story post Conviction, there was just so much stalling. Look at the Golden Age arc, it was well paced and engaging and "only" had 10 volumes, Conviction just 6 etc.
I dont know what you mean, IMO she looks more "stylised" and "anime" in the first picture. Also Miura is still getting used to the shift to digital art (it's still better than anything Golden Age though) Give him a few more chapters to get into the swing of things and he'll start channeling Millenium Falcon-tier drawings.
Elf Queen is smart but she's not psychic! She knew something was wrong, but how was she (or anyone else) supposed to know that Guts was linked to her trauma, especially since he seems to be so caring towards her?
Mate if you could spare a few seconds to look at Berserk's genre tags, you'd know it's also listed as "adventure" so there goes your entire argument.
Most of the stuff that came after the Conviction arc is just an extension of stuff that came before. Magic has existed ever since The Black Swordsman arc and we're simply getting an explanation for it now. Also, the very fact that it has mages doesn't make it cliche. That's like saying the GA arc was cliche because it had knights, which we've also seen in alot of other media before.
The creatures aren't interesting? Have you looked at Griffith's demon army, they look rad af
Aside from the pre-conviction stuff, Dark Souls also took inspiration from the Berserker armour and the character of Schierke.
The comic relief characters don't take away from the serious moments and the rest of your arguments are just more meaningless buzzwords. The themes and character introspection are very much still there (especially in these recent chapters)
Schierke knows little to nothing about the outside world and this is highlighted throughout the Millenium Falcon arc. Her entire character arc was her learning to leave her nest and adapt to her new surroundings. She is far from perfect (even when she's casting those "OP" spells she's put in a very vulnerable position)
Isidro's definitely more humble now than he was then. He knows his place and doesn't rush to the frontlines. Also he's grown more empathetic, as shown in his interactions with Isma. But yeah, he's still got a lot of room for growth.
Puck was never really a character. He never had his own goals, aspirations, anything. He was always just the joke machine.
What you don't seem to grasp is that you can still have comic relief in your story without squandering the tension.
The Golden Age arc had Adon, who was even more obnoxiously over the top than the pirates (and not nearly as endearing either) yet he didn't take away from the high stakes of the battle for doldrey, just like the pirates didn't take away from the high stakes of the sea god fight.
Isma is like 16 so I don't think the term "loli" applies. And she's still a new character so save your judgements till later.
Berserk has always had detours. The entirety of the Lost Children arc was a detour, as was The Black Swordsman arc. And detours aren't a bad thing! They help to flesh out the world and characters.
But what you don't understand is that you're not supposed to be rooting for Griffith He's no longer a hero like in the GA arc, but rather a malevolent God masquerading as a hero. You're supposed to be feeling dread at his display of powers. And it's not like Ganishka was a pushover either. He put up a decent enough fight, considering the resources at his disposal.
It wasn't just mindless battles either, a large portion of it was Griffith using his charisma to rally the people around him to his cause, slowly uniting an entire nation under his wing, which I found fairly compelling.
Miura is not one to utilise asspulls though, like I can't really think of any instance where he did. Maybe the battle against Griffith could be a more cerebral/strategic one, and not a direct physical confrontation. And Griffith's still got that demon baby inside him so he's reluctant to harm Guts and Casca, I'm sure that's gonna come into play later.
Having Flora restore her just like that without any prior build up would've been terrible writing. Again part of what made her return so satisfying is the fact that she'd been out of it for so long.
Golden Age was just one long flashback, which is why events are rushed past alot quicker than the rest of the series. And the Conviction arc had a much more small-scale conflict with a much smaller cast of characters as compared to the Millenium Falcon arc, which is why it was shorter. Maybe the reason you find it to be draging is because you've been reading the chapters as they come out?
@RandomChampion Already did a great job but I'll add my two cents as well.
Thats exactly how I would describe Casca in the second pic, very stylised and not real like she used to look. The GA arc art wasn't perfect but I think the characters overall still looked better and the fact is that Miura vastly improved in the following arcs so this shift to digital is a clear step back. I hope he can deliver MF level art again but I doubt it.
Fair point on the Elf queen but she still should have been smarter and at least give Casca some time to rest. Instead she gives her a ridiculous outfit and sends her off to Guts. I'm talking about the whole story being focused on the adventure and thats certainly never how Berserk was. Its a more personal & connected story.
The difference is that the GA arc while having knights focused on interesting characters, Guts and Griffith are anything but cliche characters. They aren't generic knights or some shit. Now with the mages they are just not explored in any interesting way and look as generic as it gets. Its just one of many examples that shows how Miura's writing declined.
Magic used to be more in the background and it was better that way. Schierke's exposition dumps are so damm boring and the magic bs just takes away from the gritty style the series used to have.
I'm sure you think that, I think Griffith's army sucks because the creepy really disgusting looking apostles were replaced by generic shiny "monsters". Every new apostle character seems to follow the same generic knight archtype (and we still dont know shit about them), where is the variety, like with the count and Rosine?
Yes they do, add in so many obnoxious comic relief characters and potentially serious and dark arcs like the sea god one (what was actually happening there was pretty bad) are ruined and lose all the tension. Miura isn't taking it seriously so why should I?
The cure Casca part in Elfheim had some solid character exploration but it doesn't make up for 12+ volumes of almost nothing (or when it was done, it was just done in a cliche way) in that regard. And I still think it could have been handled in a more subtle way (instead we got dick monsters).
Schierke arc is not interesting at all since she adapts pretty easily and doesn't have to struggle at all. So "vulnerable" that there are no real consequences, its fake tension. She is the perfect cute loli, even the magic she uses is 100% good. Isidro being a bit nicer to his group isn't satisfying development after 20 volumes since he first appeared. Especially since his character is just the typical Shounen MC archtype. I really dont get wtf the point of this character was apart from adding more shit comic relief.
Time for you to read the Black swordsman and Conviction arcs again. Puck never had any goals true but he was definitely a real character with an interesting relationship with Guts,not just a joke machine and in constant chestnut puck form. But sadly Miura's loli fetish appeared and he dumped him in favour of Schierke (a much worse character with a cheesier relationship with Guts, considering the crush).
No he wasn't as over the top as the Pirates who were like fucking Team Rocket with the amount of times they kept returning (and since when were they endearing?). And it wasn't just the Pirates in the sea god arc, it was also Isidro, Puck etc. who were comic relief. Some comedy is fine but Berserk has been going overboard in that regard since quite a while.
She looks like a loli so the term applies. And again with the bad excuses, Jill only appeared in the lost children arc (not much longer than the sea god one) and was still a much more human and interesting character than shitty Isma.
They aren't a bad thing if they are executed well, none of the detours since Lost Children ended have been good. I mean just comparing the sea god arc with the lost children one shows you the decline of the series. Not to mention its been just one detour after another since Guts set out on his journey to elfheim, talk about repetitive
Never said Griffith is or should be a hero at this point. How can anyone root for him after the shit he did? That doesn't mean he still can't be compelling and three dimensional, instead since his return he has been a boring fucking robot with no thoughts or relationships whatsoever.
Ganishka didnt really put up any fight since all was going according to Griffith (and I guess the God Hand's) plan and he basically just kept losing. Griffith even used cheating in that regard, its not like in the GA arc where he actually had to use his charisma. This time there is already a revelation, god powers etc. so while it was interesting to see people act like his sheep, it got old real fast. If this was still made before Berserk started to be milked, it would have had much faster pacing, there is a lot of fat to be trimmed in Guts and Griffith's stories post Conviction.
Who says the same go into Casca's mind story couldn't have happened there? Its lazy & cheap writing to drag out her return, just so it has more impact & "feels". 10 volumes was already more than enough. Its not like she returned directly after the GA arc..
No, I have only started following like 3 years ago and even when I first read it I realized how shitty the pacing became after Conviction. And its not because of the big cast but because of the bad detours, lots of wasting time on mindless unnecessary battles etc. The GA arc is not a typical flashback, its basically its own story with fantastic pacing. Not one chapter is wasted.