- #106
Aardwolf94 said:
Draconix814 said:
Aardwolf94 said:
zodd0 said:
People here still trying to argue with this wall of a troll like
Berserk fans seeing someone who thinks its not the perfect masterpiece that they think it is & isn't convinced by their weak arguments = must be a troll. lol, hilarious, as always
No, you're just retarded is all.
Aardwolf94 said:
Thats silly because I shouldn't need to add "imho" after every sentence, never even pretended that any of this was a fact. In fact its the other users trying to make their opinions on Berserk (that its a masterpiece throughout) seem like the objective truth and getting worked up because I don't agree with their arguments.
Well you are again just looking at it from a biased perspective. I only attract that because I'm the only one here bashing Berserk, did you notice that part? Why would fans get angry at other fans? The truth is Berserk fans are not used to seeing their favourite manga being trashed, since its one of the most highly acclaimed and loved manga's in the whole community. And when someone does it, the result isn't good..
Because I have seen others agree with me on other forums regarding specific parts, curious to see which one's you agree with. And tbh you wouldn't even be the first one here, at least 2 other users agreed with me here to an extent (not completely).
Well as long as you stay civil and don't get worked up, I won't either. As you can see from my previous thread, I was actually trying to discuss things in a calm manner. And while I did go overboard later on, I still did try explain each of my points
Have you ever thought we're trying to explain why it is critically acclaimed instead of assuming it's all because we're stereotypical butthurt assholes who can't take other's opinions?
And if you have a right to trash Berserk and disagree with other's opinions, then we have a right to do the same to yours.
And you AREN'T the only one who trashes Berserk for any sort of reason, you're just the one making the biggest stink about it, and that's why we're all responding to you.
I am disregarding the nature of opinions in this post-- I am just addressing your own logical fallacies and misconceptions.
Well looking at your reactions at my posts, you are definitely a stereotypical butthurt asshole & dumb insecure blind fanboy, lol. But yeah you did try to explain it but your arguments were just very weak and not very convincing.
You can trash my opinions, the problem is how butthurt you Berserk tards get. I mean it can be observed from the previous thread and this one, each time it was one of your type who got so worked up & started throwing cheap insults (I just responded in a way that fits). Its laughable and pathetic.
I'm clearly the only one here who does it (the only other user who thinks it went downhill post Conviction still thinks its the "GOAT"), of course I'm not the only one in general, many of my arguments are actually the typical one's that "haters" mention (but still sadly we are the minority)
No, its more like you don't have any actual strong arguments and each time ignore my posts (like the previous one where I explained in detail why I think Isidrio is a garbage character and why retreading the same ground as GA etc. means shit if the execution is garbage) & instead take the easy way out and focus on other bs.
I don't think this is worth continuing but it seems like you all just can't let go so I'll keep replying because its interesting.
On what grounds is the pacing bad and execution is shit? The only arguments you threw out there repeatedly was that it was dragging on after Conviction, and rushed beforehand. Meanwhile you said that the Golden Age arc was perfectly paced in every respect. How do you define good pacing? My definition of good pacing is sufficient build up to turning points in the narrative in context with the story itself. The Eclipse was the first HUGE turning point in the narrative, and it built up for around 9 volumes. All for a betrayal, a rape scene and massacre, mind you. But now, instead of another encounter with the God Hand, we're building up to the encounter with Idea of Evil (AKA God), which SHOULD feel like a monumental feat considering the scale and broadness of the idea it is named after and by the very nature of it having FULL CONTROL over causality.
What boggles me more is that one of your biggest complaints are the new characters and their "lack of development", but when you look back at the Golden Age arc, the ONLY characters that developed are Guts, Griffith and Casca. You can fact check me on this. Everyone else kinda just reacted to their development accordingly and that was it. Compare that to Conviction and Falcon of the Millennium Empire, where we have multiple different characters developing at the same time as the plot moves to finding a way to protect and save Casca. After Conviction, multiple new demons for Femto's new army got introduced, new conflicts with significance for the future are introduced, and Guts gets new companions out of necessity, as they all try to live with their newfound struggles. And EVERYONE in that new cast has developed in some way, like I told you before.
Also, you're acting like all of these new characters have had consistent panel time for development. Like I said before, there are a bunch of chess pieces moving at once, which means that slow build up to the true character-defining moments are required. If they're all bunched up with little build up, it will BREAK consistency and viewer engagement.
All of these flaws in your arguments and much more is why they will never be anything more than subject. Because they aren't supported by reality. Believe it or not, opinions have to hold up to scrutiny for it to be considered valuable in any respect. This is why theories are so valuable in our community and our society, depending on the context. You can't just go up to a scientist and say that the Big Bang theory is false because it is just a theory, just like you can't say that one's opinion (especially a popular one) is false because you don't agree with it. You've now said that YOUR OPINION IS SUBJECTIVE MULTIPLE TIMES NOW SO THERE'S NO EXCUSE. You can disagree with someone else's opinion all you want, but if you have no grounds for your claims then you are better off hitting the curb.
I've expressed to you already that the reason I hesitate to respond to your posts is because of your logical fallacies...
Draconix814 said:
Dude, I've seen what you've done to the other people who replied to you (you twisted their argument to suit your narrative like you're doing here), so why wouldn't I try different angles to explain my arguments? And thank you for proving my point. You just admitted your points were subjective. Now that we got that out of the way, do all of your feelings for a series directly apply to everyone else's? Of course they don't. Yet you insist that because you don't like it, it is definitively bad. For example, you said that Isidro is annoying (annoying is a subjective term), and that he gets "no development" (which I still haven't seen you cite evidence of without resorting to vague oversimplifications of the events that transpired in the past 20 volumes), therefore he is a shit character. Your arguments are littered with so many logical fallacies that I get a headache when I read them, that's why I didn't respond. In fact, you commit the (1) Circular Reasoning fallacy, you commit the (2) Argument from Ignorance fallacy, you commit the (3) Argument from Personal Incredulity fallacy (your subjectivity, basically), and most sinfully, the (4) Argument of Repetition fallacy along with others such as (5) Hasty Generalizations and (6) Personal Attack/ Praise. https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html ---Repeating/ asserting (4) hasty generalizations (5) based off of your own subjectivity (3) and lack of understanding of the content (2), praising others who agree with your own opinion and attacking others with different opinions, (6) DOES NOT make you objectively correct. (Themes and messages inherent to the story too, though interpretable, are only recognized if they have evidence supporting it)
...Not that you responded to it. And you criticize me for ignoring your posts? At least I ignore the shit other people have responded to, or the stuff I've already responded to. I understand you don't exactly have that advantage, but that all the more means that you hold the burden of proof. If you aren't going to make claims that are consistent with substantial evidence regardless of subjectivity, then regardless of the intentions of the people who criticize you, they have a right to.
I agree with your definition of pacing, to an extent. I would add that its important that every part of the arc(s) feels vital to the overall story and the relationships of the characters. It should always be interesting, nothing should drag and take too long.
The Golden Age arc in that arc was very well crafted. It builds up to the Eclipse with obvious stuff like Zodd's appearance and warning but also with exploring Guts, Griffith (and Casca's) relationships. Really every encounter and battle is important and it never feels like it goes for too long. This all happened in ca. 10 volumes.
Lets compare with post Conviction Berserk. Guts sets out for Elfheim and wants to cure Casca but after the troll arc which introduced his new companions and magic, its just simply padded out for no reason. Vrtannis and the sea god shit add nothing to the "Cure Casca" story, there is no building up to that part. Instead Berserk is dragged down by focusing on the same old generic fights against shitty monsters & overall bad detours.
Griffith vs Ganishka was also repetitive. After the first battle it was already obvious that Griffith is basically in god mode now and that everyone worships + he has no problems whatsoever. Instead of moving the narrative along faster, Miura wastes lots of chapters on flashy fights. The new apostle characters are also not developed at all.
As a result of this padding it takes 18 fucking volumes to get to Elfheim which is simply ridiculous. There is a lot of fat that should have been trimmed but sadly Miura was milking it.
And I dont think we can say that its building up to a confrontation with the idea of evil. The chapter about that was declared to be not canon by Miura so clearly he wanted to leave it more vague. Hell forget the idea of evil, none of the God Hand members were explored post Eclipse. Its not even really building up to Guts vs Griffith, since Guts currently doesn't care about revenge and has done nothing to come closer to defeating Griffith + Griffith doesnt give a fuck about him.
Again 18 volumes the only thing that was achieved in Guts story is that he got some new friends, went to Elfheim and (apparently) cured Casca. Thats atrocious pacing, its like Bleach where one arc against Aizen takes like 20 volumes
So? Only the main trio needed development in the GA arc. Miura was smart not to waste time on other characters. Well thats the problem, they aren't really developing in any meaningful way (especially not for being in the story since 14+ volumes ) and their relationships compared to the main trio are shallow and cliche as fuck.
Like when you look at the end of the troll arc (the first arc with the shitty party) and now & you realize that not much has changed. Farnese got some new power but is still the same nice boring babysitter (who's dark desires were forgotten), Isidro is still same cocky obnoxious Shounen MC cliche, Schierke still has a crush on Guts and is the nice witch of the group who helps Guts with the Berserker armor etc. Even Guts himself who used to be a dynamic character is the same and stale as hell (again because Miura dragged out the cure casca story which meant his character couldn't move on)
And thats not even mentioning all the pointless like Azan, Isma, Magnifcio who are even worse.
Compare that with the Golden Age arc's beginning and end. The main trio and their relationships were developed far more, only in 9 volumes.
Here we ago again. I have explained my points multiple times (why retreading the same ground as the GA arc doesn't matter if the execution sucks, why Guts new party is full of shit characters and why their relationships are so cliche, why the pacing is ass post Conviction etc.) you just keep ignoring them or try to give cheap vague excuses. Like as if making the story more expansive & adding more shit characters is any excuse for shit pacing etc. Or don't forget your "smart" argument that just because the majority likes it, it means Berserk is a masterpiece that can't be bashed.
So clearly its your arguments that are weak as hell. And the only reason I have no "grounds" for my claims /why my opinion apparently isn't valuable is because you are clearly a hardcore fanboy of Berserk who disregards any sort of criticism & thinks it stays great throughout. Ever thought about that? How delusional can someone be...
Nice roundabout way of saying that your opinion is somehow more valid than mine, lol at the Big Bang theory example too, jesus talk about going overboard.
Don't need to respond because its again poor deflecting and shit excuses, instead of actually discussing things. Your opinion is just as subjective as mine, just because its supported by the majority doesn't make it any more valid. And you are the one who started with the personal attacks in the first place because he got butthurt that I was bashing Berserk
But hey calling people "retarded" because you think their arguments are weak is justified? Good to know.
