The_Bif said:
JUHABACH said:
The_Bif said:
I placed the thread within spoiler tags to save space and people's eyes.
Viz is the "official translation", but it's companies like Viz that are the reason I stay away from manga or anime that has been "officially" translated into English. I won't watch English dubbed anime, and I don't read the "official" releases of manga by Viz. When you dumb it down, make it so completely unoffensive and non-controversial to virtually every possible type of person that could read it, it takes away the power and meaning of the words. There is an art to translating Japanese into English without mucking it up, if you take too many liberties as Viz does you lose power and meaning but if you are too literal it does not read right. It is all about finding that balance, the ability to literally translate it AND make it read right for the English language. I've compared a number of sources, this translation and the the translation I gave in my earlier comments are the only two going around with the translation I gave being the most prevalent and accepted of the two in discussion forums. I'm not giving out the source of my translation because I assume the rules for the manga threads are the same as with anime, no unofficial sub groups or translations are allowed to be listed here.
However, that is more an argument of preference than anything. Viz has the label "official" so I guess that makes them "right". So, let's look at it this way...
In the way it is presented here, it was all done for Bach's gain the conversation comes off more as a joke than anything. It makes Bach sound like he's run out of things to say and is just trying to throw Ichigo off, which is a theory that others have presented as well. It could also be taken as you said earlier, that he's talking about "fate". If that is the case, we just go back to the definition of "fate" that I copied earlier:
Fate: the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.
or as a verb: be destined to happen, turn out, or act in a particular way.
I would assume that, going by the way Bach was speaking to Ichigo in this translation, that it would be "fate" as a verb- destined to happen. In which case we'll go back to my definition of "destined" from earlier as well...
Destined: (of a person's future) developing as though according to a plan.
So, if it's developing as though according to a plan it would mean that Bach would be the great or supernatural power behind the plan. In this case, if Bach was indeed the power behind the plan that was Ichigo's "fate", then telling this to Ichigo, whether you say it as he did in the Viz translation or in the translation I gave, it means the same thing. Bach has been "guiding" Ichigo's life from the start, a safe assumption considering he says they are of the same blood and the inner manifestation of Ichigo's Quincy power is the Bach from 1000 years ago.
Now we go back and take a look at Aizen's speech during the battle with Ichigo... Aizen tells Ichigo that everything he's done has played right into his hand, and explains that he was the one who set all of the events into motion that led him to that very moment.
So, everything Ichigo did played into Aizen's hand and was done for Bach's gain, because Aizen set all of the events into motion yet he was fighting for Bach the entire time. No matter how you spin it, they're both telling him the same shit.
On a side note, I wonder if Bach acting like Aizen could have something to do with how Aizen screwed with his "time" when he went down to talk to him?
You're stubborn
just admit, that's not the same shit
Whatever we do will you still stubborn
Really? After I've already proven my point no matter how you try to spin it, that's all you can say? Your name says all I really need to know, your a Bach fan- which means you're going to hold onto your bias no matter what evidence is shown to you, as you've done here, and project onto those of us who are not blinded by that bias all of the problems that you, yourself, should really come to terms with.
At first I was enjoying this debate, the back and forth was quite nice compared to the usual crap I get when I try to discuss anime episodes in their threads. But, I see now how futile it is. It seems that all reason is beyond your blind loyalty to what could have been a much better character had Kubo not written him so much like Aizen. Aizen was bad enough on his own, with all of his "you played into my hands" and "it's all according to plan, so watch me turn into a pretty, pretty butterfly" crap. Then, right after Bach shows up with some brilliant strategy we find out that while he was visiting Aizen, Aizen managed to mess up his "time" just to show that he's still the strongest character in the series. This completely degraded the image of Bach we were being presented, and it did not help matters any that the army of Quincy gave up their Quincy pride and weapons for goofy abilities that make the Fullbringers look good. Then Bach starts demonstrating how Aizen he is by showing off his "all powerful" Quincy-God powers and eyes that see everything, repeating over and over "these eyes of mine" like it's the only phrase he knows before giving Ichigo the same spiel Aizen did back when they fought with the "it was all for my gain, you've been fighting for me this entire time, it all happened because I allowed it, blah blah blah" crap.
It almost seems like Kubo realized very early that he was putting together a villain better than Aizen, so he quickly had to turn the potential better than Aizen character into a "I'm almost as good as Aizen, but he's still stronger so I'm going to talk like him and hope everyone believes me" douchebag.
I'll be reading the new chapter later, so I'm done here. Hopefully you've learned something, but I doubt it.
for me I said I don't have a problem if Yhwach planned everything
But you contradict yourself
good bye
