Bleach Chapter 504 Discussion

awesome ch...finally some backstory on yama and chojiro.



he was so cheerful when he was young and now we know how yama got that x shaped scar on his head :D



but those last pages, oh lawd...badass yama is badass



for a moment, I thought Kubo was going to troll by switching the story back to HM D:



And nothing but a oneshot was to be expected from old man yama, the most powerful shinigami in all of SS

Since Choujirou is dead, we won't be figuring it out if the bankai will return or not when you defeat a Stern Ritter that absorbed a bankai.

Good, another of those stinky quinchies bit the dust.

Lol he got owned, it would've been nice to see Sakusabe bankai before he died. It looked pretty cool.

Monad said:
Missinglucky said:
kizu-kun said:
another one bites the dust. I'm glad to see these quincies don't have perfect control over the bankai they steal. And we got to see slightly less old yamamoto which was pretty cool. Now back to Urahara......



I wouldn't exactly say perfect control, I think Yamamoto kinda gives the game away near the end of the chapter (page 16-17) Yamamoto states the bankai was not that weak. So I reckon they can steal the bankai but not have it's full strength, they're weaker versions of it.



Is not about being a weakest version or having trouble controlling it. Is just that the original owners of those bankais trained with them all their life and they know how to utilize them best. It's like a weapon that you kept using for years, even if someone steals your weapon and even if he knows how to shoot he won't know every little feeling and detail about the usage of that weapon as you do and he will not use it as good as you.



I guess you are right, I reckon I interpreted what Yamamoto said wrongly :)

Fai said:
Puty said:
Kanic said:
Fiji said:
Since Choujirou is dead, we won't be figuring it out if the bankai will return or not when you defeat a Stern Ritter that absorbed a bankai.



I don't think we can assume such a thing. After al the bankai is sealed in the medallion not stored in the actual bodies of the Quincy.

Yeah, so it creates possibility to figure out these medalions secret if Yamamoto is to retrieve one.



Or it would be hilarious if everyone expects the bankais to return to owners only to find out that lol-nope, they are lost forever. ;]



Well, it would be certainly surprising, but at the same time it would be extremely stupid, since someone(I believe it was Kyouraku) explained that they HAD TO gave up their bankais to see the effects for themselves. So careless loss of the several bankais would prove to be extremely lame. Sure, I would like to see that serious: "oh, we fucked up a big time, so now we are fucked as well", but come on, it's Bleach, it won't turn out to be anything dark like this. It reminds me of your idea of the twist that the Fullbringers weren't actually defeated, but it was all the trick - most of the time you seem to have better ideas than Kubo himself ;].

Candor said:
KingofConquerors said:
I still can't accept the fact that chojiro had bankai, never....chojiro having a bankai is one of the biggest most gigantic asspulls Kubo has ever come up with (aside from Kenpachi beating nnoitra, i mean wtf, Ichigo had to acquire Bankai and Hollowfication to barely win against Grimmjow while Kenpachi killed off nnoiitra without any power-ups at all!). No matter how secretive he was about his bankai, any sane SS officer would have unleashed their true power throughout the winter war (Aizen pretty much fucked up the entire captains)....



Chojirou would have soloed the first and third espada single-handedly if he had joined in the fray....-__-So Renji and Ikkaku have bankai, why wouldn't Sakakibe, the oldest vice-captain and the oldest captain candidate, have bankai?  In the fight against Aizen every captain faced an Espada and the Vizard came to help, so Sasakibe didn't really have any job to do at that time. He's also a captain-level Shinigami, he couldn't defeat the 1-3 Espada because they were above captain level.



Speaking of Ichigo vs Nnoitra, Ichigo was fighting with Grimmjow before Nnoitra and was kicked around a lot (because he was being emo, Inoue was afraid of him..etc), and he lost a lot of reiatsu, so he couldn't stand a chance against Nnoitra. In Kenpachi vs Nnoitra, Kenpachi was about to die if he didn't use that Kendo technique, so that's kinda a power-up. But how did Kenpachi defeat 3 Quincy? There was a mistake in translation in Mangapanda's version. If you read the mangastream version you'd notice that there are at least 6 Quincy that are above Captain Level, which means the number of the stronger Quincy haven't been mentioned exactly yet, so Kenpachi killed the weaker ones. There will probably also be some other explanations that's coming in this arc about Ichigo & Kenpachi.



About Ichigo vs Nnoitra, ichigo, even in his full-health, would not have been able to win in that battle. He BARELY defeated grimmjow and afterwards encountered an espada that was definitely stronger than Grimmjow, by logic he wouldn't be able to win, which brings me to the topic of Kenpachi. How could a Kendo ability upgrade be much more significant than a bankai and hollowfication. This guy drew with a shikai ichigo, how the hell did a kendo upgrade elevate him so high in terms of power scale? why didn't he use it against Ichigo when they fought?



Now back to the topic of Sasakibe, i'm still sticking' to my opinion that on the basis of the flashback that Kubo gave in this chapter, logically Sasakibe should have assisted the ss officers throughout the winter war. I know that perhaps Yamamoto ordered him not to interfere, but logically judging by how his character was established in the flashback, he should have had the capacity to refuse (he disobeyed Yamamoto's order to become a student of his dojo if he wanted to become his retainer)



and about him being old enough to have bankai, i don't think his age has anything to do with it. Some of the vizards that used to be vice-captains in SS (i forgot their names but u know what i'm talking about)are older than Ikkaku or Renji, yet they haven't been shown to have a bankai, so i don't think this point u brought about is valid...



so yeah, i still believe this posthumous power-up of the character is a huge asspull



But i've sunk my teeth into this, so i'll stick to this till the end....

Ashes.