Bleach Chapter 469 Discussion

this is so stupid...

Fai said:
Convenience excuse of shonen genre with reinforcements arriving a bit latter, allowing the hero to develop a  bit as character. A lot of what happened in that moment gave insight into who Ichigo is and just what a drug the whole having power is for him.



In what ways did he develop?! He got pushed around by his new "allies", making one worse decision after another, playing exactly into Ginjou's hands. Then he cried a bit and Urahara came to save his sorry ass.

The only thing he could have learned from all of this is:"It doesn't matter how many times I get in trouble, pepole will always come to save me. I don't have to learn from my mistakes because I'm always safe."



Fai said:
Anything to back those opinions up?

We learned a lot about Ichigo as character, how he sees his powers and WHY he always rushes to protect others. We saw the darker side of that whole nature of his and we saw how the others around him feel.

And sorry? Learned nothing new? New doubts about SS arose for Ishdia, we have potential Isshin backstory and lots of other stuff like that, not to mention finally a background for Chad's powers.



We have the entire manga that can back up our opinions.

Ichigo was a brash, impulsive boy caring for his new friends to a fault finding himself into a situation bigger than himself. 400 chapters later and he's still a brash, impulsive boy caring for his new friends to a fault finding himself into a situation bigger than himself. You can read again the manga if you want to.

And all that stuff is just background elements. The central point of Bleach, namely "Ichigo is the Messiah that will save humanity and thus can never fail", won't change a little.



Fai said:
And timeskip realistically developed every character who was there.



Indeed: Yuzu's boobs got bigger. *rimshot*



Fai said:
would be fine and dandy if not for the fact that training itself and everything that happened in those chapters was not about giving Ichigo's powers back. But then again you missed that.



He didn't miss anything. All the FB training was only for getting his new powers stolen from Ginjou the obvious villain, and gaining Shinigami powers again through the perfectely timed intervention of SS. Even though it was clearly stated at the end of Aizen's battle that Ichigo could never regain his powers ever again.



Fai said:
Are they attacking? are they moving? Did he place those petals there or did Ichigo push them back by the impact. The next panel shows a perfect sphere with empty range described in this chapter.



They're blades. And magically powered to boot. Byakuya has the power to move them everywhere he wants. He could have killed him anytime he wanted to. The next panel is another example of Kubo's inconstitency, by moving Ichigo several meters back even if he doesn't know Shunpo.



Fai said:
And yet again you fail to bring any arguments into your repeatable repeat of same phrase.



And everyone here has yet to see an argument from you that goes beyond "Kubo is still good after all these years but I won't explain why" or "I invented the expression 'reading comprehension' to avoid getting reported".

I dunno...the colour spread was nice? don't really have much to comment on the chapter itself, was rather boring.

kizu-kun said:
lol about that so called "no damage range"
hungry_bunny said:


I can't believe I spent 5 minutes looking for this, but this is the exact scene I remembered.



Thats deffensive.


The very point of what Tsukishima explained about senbonzakura is that Byakuya can't attack his opponents when they are n no damage range. Thus while most would assume the best defense against bya is to get far away, the truth is the best defensive action against bya is to rush him forward attacking.


Also, notice how in next pages, its a perfect bubble? Its not close to Bya. Its a sphere around him with area left empty.

Fai said:
Congratulations on being yet another one who missed the point of Ichigo's training. It was not about new powerup.



There really was no point to this arc.  Ichigo didn't learn anything important or new, he didn't develop as a character, etc.  In fact this whole time skip was pointless, as well as Ichigo's power loss, which they tried to make it seem like some serious sacrifice when it really wasn't.



Chapter 459 proved how pointless this whole arc was.  In took only 1 chapter it showed Ichigo getting his powers back, you don't need an arc to do that.  All Ichigo needed to do was get stabbed by Urahara's special Shinigami sword with all the Shinigamis' reiatsu, not Fullbring or his stupid Dollhouse/Dirty Boots training bs.



Fai said:
AS for link, bad drawing angle, look at the panel below - the petals are in spherical formation around him, not entering close to him.



Ichigo is still very close to Byakuya and his petals are blocking Ichigo's attack at close range.



icegenie said:
........ "pointless training" ? If it was just as easy to be stabbed in order to regain his shinigami powers, then i believe Kubo would have done so. Then wouldnt it just be a repeat of Chapter 1 all over again? That would be what I call "pointless". And of cos, we are still missing the part on Ichigo's hollow powers, which would complicate matters. Not yet to be discussed in the manga too, so I dont think we should be jumping into conclusion whether or not the training is "pointless".



Maybe it's because Kubo is dragging this out as much as possible, it's almost a year of this pointless arc after all.  It's already a repeat of Chapter 1, he's even reusing chapter titles, the only difference is that Chapter 1 didn't waste this much time doing so.  Ichigo's hollow powers haven't been hinted in this arc, but it might come back by plot convenience during his fight.  Ichigo getting his Shinigami powers back by being stabbed already made Fullbring and his training pointless.

Machuran said:
Fai said:Because there's a shitload of material to go through?

Aizen's connection to Kurosaki family.

Isshin's past.

Soul King as an Enemy and the truth behind the soul king that made Aizen so desperate to oppose him any means necessary. More so the truth that should have made Urahara do the same.

What Mayuri found in HM.

Zeroth Squad and the shady "promotions" into it.

Royal Guard.

The secret and reason behind -getsu swords.

Thats just off the top of my mind, I am sure there's more

And instead of using any 1 of these plot points (which would have been more important and much more interesting than this arc), Kubo decides to waste time on this Fullbring nonsense.It takes time.

Tsuki's ability takes some time to work. Remember CHad and Inoue? Most likely thats all we will see of their fight.

Not for Ginjou, within a few moments of being cut, he reverted back to his old self.


Except that the mystery behind the shinigami badge was ALSO one of plotpoints left to be explored ever since Ichigo got the damn thing. Also this connects to Isshin's past too.


Ginjou did not get the memory alteration. It was the undoing of effect. Which was most likely way way way faster. :)

sayami said:
I still think that Riruka'll change sides~

She will, obviously, as the cover page indicated. However first she needs to go against Inoue somehow, since thats the person she connects with. I would not be surprised on if Inoue came to Rukia's rescue or something.

kizu-kun said:
^but tsukishima said the blades never enter that range period so he shouldnt be able to defend either and they seem to be portraying it that way currently. if he could defend in that range it wouldnt be that critical of a weakness.

not enter. the correct translation is "intersect or cross" . So theoretically, they can BE there, but they can't take any offense. And if someone gets within that range before he forms a barrier of petals, then he won't be doing anything and would not be able to protect himself. Not to mention that the best way to defend against byakuya is to keep stacking which means bya can't attack you with the sword.


Also, refer to the whole bubble/sphere thing. The way the panel was drawn I got an impression, Byakuya formed the spherical stuff and Ichigo pushed petals back a bit by clashing.

Notice how in next page the petals are spherically surrounding Byakuya nothing in the intersect range.