Vinland Saga Chapter 172 Discussion

Uhh, I understand what Thorfinn wants to do, but I also can't disagree with Eyvar. If the people of Vinland ever got aggressive, Thorfinn's team would be like sitting ducks, without any means to even defend themselves. It's sad, but there's just no way for them to live there without any conflicts, without killing or dying.

Well, we'll see how it turns out.

I think the farm arc was incredible in showing Thorfinn's character development with his whole ideology and that stuff, but even though it's a nice way of thinking, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Swords symbolize violence since it's a tool that was created for the sole purpose of hurting others, which is just what Thorfinn wants to avoid. But Ivar is right, people can still use other tools to hurt others and Thorfinn should bring swords with him in the very likely event that the natives will show hostility towards him and his friends.



And Hild just keeps saying the same thing over and over again

"nooo this manga now sucks ugh peace bad trans people bad"



C'mon, the message has always been there since the beginning: "a true warrior needs no blade". This story has always been about the search for a land where the weak could live in peace, without having to deal with injustice and war. In crude terms: "SAFESPACE: The Manga".



yeah, I agree that some of the philosophical views are heavily anachronistic. However, as someone here has mentioned, it's *fiction*. "But the author uses real historical characters, locations and events!" Well, that's true, but it doesn't mean that the author NEEDS TO be 100% accurate on everything. Jesus, I don't see anyone shitting on the FATE series when they change a historical figure's gender [JK, not serious, calm down!]. Now, seriously, the author has the right of creative freedom to put philosophical anachronisms in his fictional production. It is an action/adventure japanese comic book, not an academic history encyclopedia.





>imo<, ppl who think the author has lost its way are being naive or just mad due to the progressive morals sustained by the narrative

Hatsuyuki said:
I don't understand how the author managed to turn this manga into such idealistic tripe. Embarrassing to say the least.



What a poor sod you are, not being able to grasp the overarching message VS insinuates to the reader.

Hatsuyuki said:
Farabeuf said:
Hatsuyuki said:
I don't understand how the author managed to turn this manga into such idealistic tripe. Embarrassing to say the least.



I'm assuming you're being sarcastic ? Because that is what this manga has been building up to for years now. It doesn't come out of the blue, at all.



That's true, doesn't make it any less stupid though. When your real world ideals get in the way of actual good writing and you can see the author's intention through his fictitious work then it fails as fiction if you ask me. All this pacifism and tran inclusivity agenda he's been pushing extra hard after the Baltic War arc is just pure cringe and makes no sense in the context of the setting at all.



"Waaahh wahhh but it doesn't have to be historically accurate AT ALL", yeah well, that's true, but this argument would stand if the author didn't specifically go out of his way to pick actual historical figures from that time period as the characters of his work. He also managed to build a pretty believable and politically interesting world up until recent chapters where it all went down the drain. What the series has become now in terms of writing is almost unrecognizable compared to the Prologue arc, i am honestly having a hard time thinking of a downgrade bigger than this manga.





The Author's intention since volumes already published was to create a character who could react to "injustices" of the Nordic period. Affirming what characters would be like ahead of his time, just like he built Thors, with Thorfinn the entire arc of the Baltic Sea served to shape his personality, and strengthen his arguments, everything he says is based on his experiences of war, a place without swords or violence, due to the trauma he had for several years following a bloody path, the point of the chapter is precisely to create a debate between two people aware of the situation, obviously this debate is not over, but I suggest that if you use the author's "intention", I can't imagine Makoto Yukimura doing something so stupid. Because everything here depends on how much the character knows, how much he has experienced with his own hands, she is being naive, I would say? Yes, but this is what brings nuance to a character, who values ​​himself for a formidable characterization to generate conflicts, whether physical or mental.



I can understand your argument, but it is not applied to the situation as well as you say, of all human character if someone is brought up knowing only ways to deal with dangerous situations or even something that needs to say their convictions/beliefs, it is quite obvious that he will say the basic arguments he met along the way growing up as a person, I see that it can irritate people, I understand, although I should never take character ideologies personally, because for me it spoils an entire experience with a manga (if there is anything I refuse to believe it would be, totally poorly executed messages or hate messages that stories can bring). Anyway, during the Farmland arc, Einar and Thorfinn talked about what a place without swords would be like, I see this whole theme being worked and fortified here, with Thorfinn believing in what would be necessary for his experience, while there is another person who opposes the  argument, it was one of the best and most symbolic chapters I read, every parallel made in that chapter was very rich, I always cherish dialogues like this that strengthen and enrich a character’s situation, I believe that the character ideology may not harm to me.



if I could exemplify a work that does not hide the author's intentions, leaving themes completely executed in a weak way, failing in the purposes of fiction it would be The Promised Neverland, but I will not go into details, I believe that any reader of the manga, analyzes the text argumentative of both manga, and see how it’s worked so differently, its a huge difference to view the fails.



Anyway, you can ignore my last text, it was just a context that I wanted to bring to discuss this issue that you pointed out, in which I found it interesting.

Hild saying the same shit over and over and over again.

I honestly love this manga (recent chapters were meh though), but holy fuck Hild is such an annoying character.

Jirash said:
JoltieRL said:
tJirash said:
Uhh, I understand what Thorfinn wants to do, but I also can't disagree with Eyvar. If the people of Vinland ever got aggressive, Thorfinn's team would be like sitting ducks, without any means to even defend themselves. It's sad, but there's just no way for them to live there without any conflicts, without killing or dying.

Well, we'll see how it turns out.

they still have axes and spears though, which can be used as a weapon

Of course, what I meant was - if he still clutched to his strict no weapons and no violence policy, they would have to get rid of every potential weapon (a spear or an axe is as good a weapon as a sword) or secure them somehow and that's obviously impossible.

Thorfinn said that he'll still bring axes for cutting wood, and spears for warding off bears and wild animals, but sword is specifically for fighting other humans

acotede said:
I found this chapter quite profound. Thorfinn understands that the presence of such a weapon does nothing but escalate any situation, no matter how you justify its presence.



It's disappointing to see comments about how "this manga sucks now," presumably because it isn't violent (at the moment). I still think there's a lot to look forward to; their inevitable adventure, Hild's character development, and the situations Thorfinn will have to negotiate without weapons.  

Agree,can't wait for the next chapters