Is complex villain necessity to write good heroic story

  • Thread starter bibiyenini
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  • #1
What do you think? Is complex villain with complex backstory, understandable motivation and proper reasons necessary to write good and rich heroic story? Or simple, substitute Disney type villain would be enough. 
 
  • #2
Of course Disney villains are enough! (^ω^) But complex “villains” like Organization XIII are even better! (*≧ω≦) Not that I believe we’re really villains... but people seem to keep calling us that... ( ・᷄ὢ・᷅ ) 
 
  • #3
I'll add on to what everyone before has already mentioned.
The villain doesn't need to be complex, unless they are also the protagonist of the story. The main point of a story is exploring the growth of the protagonist(s) as a character. A complex villain could help accomplish that (by presenting moral dilemmas, etc.), but a 'cartoon' villain would still push the hero to be better if they are strong enough.
This is pretty much what we see in a lot of Xianxia novels: escalating levels of 'cartoon' villains, with the occasional complex(-ish) villain thrown in there(e.g. I Shall Seal The Heavens) 
 
  • #4
I meant The jungle book, from 1967. Haven't watched the recent remakes yet. 
 
  • #5
Simple greed as motivation for the villain usually works for me better than poorly executed "complex villain with complex reasons that lead him this path". Since if executed poorly, villain ends up just edgy.

But yeah, if it's written good, then hell yeah for a complex villain.

@Edit And simple reasons to be villainly don't have to mean he can't be still likable. 
 
  • #6
I would say that it mostly depends on the characters role in the story, if the character is at the centre of a complex schemes and plots then the character likely need to be more complex to suit that, and the more time you spend with the character the more nuance you likely will need for the character to not overstay his welcome.
Meanwhile a simple murderer or robber can work just fine without any detail given to motivation or backstory as even in real life there are plenty of criminals without a "clear" motivation that they understand themselves, so it is too much to expect it from every single villain in fiction. 
 
  • #7
Depends on the story. Sometimes, a complex villain is good, other times a simple one is. I think the instances that need a complex villain are in cases where the story focuses in exploring deep concepts, like the morality of humans, what is right or wrong, etc.
The times i feel that villains can be simplistic is when the goal of the story is to make the hero triumph. The villain needs to be something the hero must overcome, and it doesn’t matter if the villain are complex, only that we need to root for the hero. 
 
  • #8
I kind of didn't like movie since the main theme of the book itself was weakly presented. The original never depicted Sher Khan as villain, just another force of nature. 
 
  • #9
My view, complexity is not needed unless you set the bar for being complex way to low.

However believability and plausibility are. A random brigand in the middle of a highly developed area with good public order does not make much sense, but in on the road in an area with little public order and/or poverty issues you need nothing else to justify one showing up. 
 
  • #10
And this itself proves his point, that even a "Force of Nature" can be a "villain" for a "hero" to overcome if written properly. It doesn't even need to have much of a personality. The other example I can think of is Moby Dick. The White Whale doesn't even say anything, he just exists but still carries the entire plot of the book.

The Old Man and the Sea is another. You could even say Robbinson Crusoe has Nature as the villain. 
 
  • #11
90s Disney animation like Aladdin and Lion King use Joseph Campbell's Hero with Thousand Faces as a guide. Heroic stories don't necessarily need complex villains to be great, but they need solid character arc for the protagonist. 
 
  • #12
I really depends on how you want to write the plot. If you want an action-packed battle story, where fights make up the majority of the plot, then a complex villain isn't necessary; however, if you want to have a story with a plot that delves into the subtle aspects of the human (or otherwise) psyche, then it would be better to make, not only the villain, but many of the characters have multifaceted personalities.

As an example compare Fullmetal Alchemist manga VS Kuro no Shoukanshi manga. In FMA, all of the battles serve a purpose in the secret plan of "Father" vs in KnS, so far, it's a narcissistic psycho and a scheming glasses bastard. 
 
  • #13
I don't think this is necessarily true either.  A complex character doesn't necessitate that he be sympathetic.  It's entirely possible for a good writer to construct a complex multi-faceted character who is still utterly despicable. 
 
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