Fai said:
KazukiUchiha said:
Fai said:
KazukiUchiha said:
Hypno-girl said:
KazukiUchiha said:
When Ichigo was training with Urahara. Urahara said if the things eating his soul chain reaches his chest, he will become a hollow. When they did reach his chest, he started to transform into a hollow. But through pure willpower and the power within him, Ichigo suppressed the hollow energy trying to take him over, thus bringing Hollow Ichigo into the world from that suppressed energy.
That's you making too much assumption.
Yes Ichigo would have turned into a hollow but it has nothing to do with Hollow Ichigo.
Ichigo had shinigami power even before he met Rukia as it was stated that it was his power that drew most of Rukia's power when she meant to give him a little.
So that mean that Zangetsu dweeled inside of Ichigo since before the manga even started which in return mean that Hollow Ichigo dweeled inside of Ichigo before the manga even started as Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo are but one entity : Ichigo's power.
I think you are also making too much assumption.
I am starting to think this about you as well because you keep saying that Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo are both one, Which is correct because they have both said this in the Manga. BUT I think they were not one from the very start. I think they BECAME one after the training with Urahara, when Ichigo awakened Zangetsu. This leads me to believe that he will not have Hollow Powers any longer. But we will both have to see.
What part of Hichigo Tensa and Zangetsu are different parts of Ichigo's id did you NOT get? They all are Ichigo and have always been in him.
So your saying Hollow Ichigo has always been dormant in Ichigo since birth, and did not grow to power and become active until the time Ichigo released his Shikai???
Hichigo is Ichigo's more animalistic sides, lust for power, lust for the heat of battle, etc. Mind-Zaraki has been a more-primal side of it, its roots that exist in every human person.
Zangetsu is Ichigo's emotions to protect and to rebuild. Its part of Ichigo that wants to NOT be that crying boy who let his mother die and embodies his most noble sides.
Tensa is Ichigo's self-preservation and confidence. Its the selfish part of Ichigo that enjoys having that power, that enjoys being Ichigo and that gives Ichigo will to live and strive forward. Its in a sense the part of Ichigo that "gave birth" to the Zangetsu part as his emotions to protect came from his selfish wish to not be that boy, thus Tensa is younger Zangetsu representing the roots of that part of Ichigo's personality.
In an essence, they all are Ichigo, an extreme representations of Ichigo's mind subconsciously governing different natures of Ichigo's power. Some of them have been eidolons of people Ichigo met (like mind-Zaraki) while other are composite psychological representations of his personality. Some of them become more prominent when Ichigo actively tries to repress them(Hichigo) in similar way the repressed personalities manifest in multiple personality disorder cases.
And In a sense, making peace with those parts allowed them all to BE Ichigo after FGT training and metaphorically(not physically since they all are Ichigo) he lost them all upon loosing his powers, thus the misery and the desperation of that little child trying to regain it all.
Pretty much this.
Ichigo do not have shinigami and hollow power. He got one power, an undissolvable power that combine the characteristic of both hollow and shinigami.
I guess that trying to make my argument more sensical than some people is trouble so I will only refute people's arguement, that way it'll be much less :effort:
When Ichigo trained with Urahara and was sent in the hole, when he was about to turn into a hollow he awakened the enterity of his power.
Forget Urahara cutting his soul chain, it was only to put him in a danger state so that he would awaken his power, the reason he appeared with a mask was because he had hollow related attribute in his power since the very start.
The reason why the mask was in a not developed, simple state was because Ichigo's power was still in it's first state, he could not even shikai at this point in time.
Turning into a hollow do not make anyone go through the process of hollowfication, lets forget having hollow power of that caliber.
It require a much better developed processus as Aizen took many years to found a way to use hollowfication on some people, also it is obviously not something done naturally as the barrier between shinigami and hollow was said since end of SS arc to be something hardly breakable even with science
I hope this was clear enough, you can't just say that Ichigo gained hollow power that fused with his already dormant shinigami power when he almost transformed in a hollow because this is actually implying that the boundary between shinigami and hollow could naturally be broken when it is not the case. Aizen researched a way to break through it because it wasn't naturally breakable, he needed to rely on the science of this world to find a way to do it.
Now I guess everyone would agree that if he did not gain 'hollow power' through his training with Urahara then he got it before the manga even started, hence what I've been saying since the beginning.
