Bleach Chapter 455 Discussion
- Thread starter jungie
- Start date
- #21
Fai said:
NO. its human nature. Every person is hypocrite. Every person is not black and white. Every person is a complex machine ticking towards something and a lot of things can make it break.
It just proves that Ichigo is Human and grasps every straw towards his reason of life.
That is just YOUR personal assumption and not based on facts. The common shounen hero is ALWAYS, ALWAYS different from the typical human being you find on this planet. I quote from how Kubo has built Ichigo's character in the past 10 years and this is the Ichigo I know, not the Ichigo you concocted from your own mind based on the average human being.
Avalie said:
Ding dong you are wrong.
He was always the protector after that accident. He would not smile, but he would get into fights, defending someone. Thats POWER.
I am not talking about placebo that is shinigami powers. Thats not "Power", thats just story tool.
The shelters himself inside that power. Not storyline "power",but power, dominance, the position of being RIGHT. He wants and needs to play the role of a hero. Tsukishima took away that from him
In eyes of everyone Ichigo ever knew, its ICHIGO who is wrong and misguided this time. And thats what takes away his power. he is bare, naked, in front of everyone he knew or cared about and they deem him WRONG. Its only a human nature for him to hate and want to kill Tsukishima.
Unfortunately, you were the one who's wrong. You just can't see it based on the facts presented in the past chapters, as all the conjectures you have presented are purely based on your own hyperbolic assumptions. The power Ichigo wanted SURPASSED the mild power he had over a couple of street-fighting punks, which you claimed he always had and was hiding behind. That's inaccurate. Ichigo had always felt helpless before that fateful day, and although he had always vowed to protect, it was never enough for him. When he finally was given that power, he had always, always used it honourably.
Tsukishima is not really different from other antagonists in the past. To channel the honourable need to protect into a desire to kill is STILL uncharacteristic of the Ichigo I know, it doesn't matter WHAT excuses you try to come up with so that Kubo's holes are patched.
Furthermore, I still find it misguided of you to conclude that just because he felt weak and naked in front of everyone means he wants to kill Tsukishima. This is the type of blind acceptance and worship of an author's writing that some people couldn't admit his own foibles.
Avalie said:
Yes. Ichigo loves playing the hero. As I said, thats what makes him go on living, thats what makes him tick. Tsukishima took that away from him.
He had lived POWERLESS, and left hollow extermination to Ishida for the past 17 months. He took that away from himself. Why didn't he kill himself, then? Are you trying to say Ichigo is selfish and hence a psychopath who has no compunction of killing someone who has stepped on his huge, narcissistic ego self? Illogical.
Its very consistent and its actually a quite clever character development.
Ichigo bathed in the heroics and Tsukishima forced Ichigo into the negative, villain,insanity role. Its only normal that Ichigo's very being of existance, very psychological basis wants to eradicate Tsukishima - a proof that he is still that vulnerable crying young boy.
Its quite similar to how buffy was developed, after all:
In first few seasons
Buffy pretty much played the hero, justifying her actions, doing heroics, protecting people. But there were always hints at something not right about that.
Eventually with each season,
that mask begins to crack. It becomes clear on that she wants to play the hero as its the only way she can justify her own selfish desires and actions. Every decision she has ever made "for greater good" can be accounted for her selfish wishes.
She pretty much wanted to re-curse Angel in season2, because "it was the right thing to do to save him", but when one thinks about it, she was ready to forget all the death and carnage he caused and just wanted to get back her own beloved, not caring about anyone else.
She went off to kill Faith proclaiming that it is to save life of her love, but when you think about it, deeper, it was because she could not stand Faith - someone who was identical to her in character, but loved embracing the villain role.
It all eventually led to
the whole facade slowly falling down and the most horrible thing to face for her was the fact that she is NOT the person she wanted to present herself as to others. That she is capable and WANTING to do all those "unheroic" things and that it is something she has always had in herself
So yeah, in same sense, Ichigo IS a hypocrite.
He claims to do all this heroic borderline suicidal stuff because of good heart, but really just hides behind it all to live on.
He claimed he wanted to be normal, but he despised, hated and was spiteful towards the normality he obtained and rushed to very first(and very still shady) chance of becoming a power-figure again.
And Tsukishima stripped him of his role. That certainly leads to psychological break down and murderous intent.
Oh, so Ichigo is insane now? So it's logical for him to want to kill Tsukishima?
Dude, with all due respect, you are wearing Bleach-Kubo worship goggles and are not arguing rationally based on what was given. In every possible cases, analyses need to be done based on hard facts and hypotheses are made based on direct evidence.
I also don't understand the reason you bring up Buffy to compare with Ichigo's situation at hand. Was Buffy written by Kubo? I'll say this outright - Buffy is a lame series, not to mention its characters are vastly different from Bleach's.
You would stand better chances by quoting me any pages from BLEACH itself in the past 450 chapters that we have (which are in fact, over 9000 pages - hah, I'm not kidding - do the math. There are chapters with over 50 pages so what I'm arguing over is undisputable) to support your case. However, I doubt that I would be able to find any potential convincing argument from your side, because week after week, I observed that you are just that adamant that "Bleach is just superb, fine and dandy and the haters just don't understand!"
I have been reading this thing for a long time and there was a phase where I thought Kubo was just brilliant. I'm not that blind to say that he is infallible. I call a spade a spade and I call it inconsistent as I see it.
All I can say to that is that character development is implied. The moment author itself states something about the character, the story becomes a glorified author's commentary about the character(like what happened to naruto) and loses its narrative structure.
Character development is implication that leads to the reader/viewer/observer to observer and draw conclusions. Its not a statement. You can't "state' a character.
Avalie said:
Buffy is a lame series
Aaaand, you just invalidated any sense of consistency, intelligence or, well anything positive in your posts ;)
