Is ancient China perilous?
- Thread starter JosephVH
- Start date
- #13
And did you EVER go and check your beliefs YOU dumb cunt? Go check up Famine in China. You'll see that it is DROUGHT, especially from the cyclic fluctuations over the Pacific Ocean that caused famine, not "government officials". The "officials" part was added in later by the Communist government to "prove" how their government works better than "Monarchy" after their rebellion and it's part of their government propaganda to legitimise their government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine#Far_East
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Niño–Southern_Oscillation
Go check all the 4 famine links referred to in the article. Drought, drought, drought. There was NOTHING for the "officials" to tax, as you yourself pointed out, they work on an "income tax" system, when the "income" i.e the crops is 0, there is NOTHING to tax. Unless you want to tax tree bark and human meat.
The main reason why Chinese authors write such template stories about "officials" is simply because of two reasons. 1- They were brought up in a time when their government was actively propagating such a view and 2- The Communist officials really DID behave like that. This carried over into their template writing since that was the behaviour they saw all "officials" behave as without the understanding that "Communist" officials and "Qing" and "Song" officials are not alike.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine#Far_East
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Niño–Southern_Oscillation
Go check all the 4 famine links referred to in the article. Drought, drought, drought. There was NOTHING for the "officials" to tax, as you yourself pointed out, they work on an "income tax" system, when the "income" i.e the crops is 0, there is NOTHING to tax. Unless you want to tax tree bark and human meat.
The main reason why Chinese authors write such template stories about "officials" is simply because of two reasons. 1- They were brought up in a time when their government was actively propagating such a view and 2- The Communist officials really DID behave like that. This carried over into their template writing since that was the behaviour they saw all "officials" behave as without the understanding that "Communist" officials and "Qing" and "Song" officials are not alike.
- #14
no different from any other ancient civilization
but for china it really depends on which reign you are living under
for example, if you lived during the three kingdoms or warring states then GG.
you'll probably be forcefully conscripted and die in war.
if you lived during a more peaceful era like some parts of the tang dynasty or han, you'll be fine.
and then there are the more famous manchu era where officials are corrupt altho there aren't really any wars where you'll still be screwed
just like how romans was so safe at the peak of the roman empire but later in some periods when rome was expanding or getting weaker, gg you're screwed.
but for china it really depends on which reign you are living under
for example, if you lived during the three kingdoms or warring states then GG.
you'll probably be forcefully conscripted and die in war.
if you lived during a more peaceful era like some parts of the tang dynasty or han, you'll be fine.
and then there are the more famous manchu era where officials are corrupt altho there aren't really any wars where you'll still be screwed
just like how romans was so safe at the peak of the roman empire but later in some periods when rome was expanding or getting weaker, gg you're screwed.
- #15
Oh. I thought they sacrificed enemies mainly, so being an Aztec citizen would be safer. (Though I got that info from a movie. I have to sleep an hour ago, so I'll just do a really quick websearch instead of a thorough one, to see if I can find some more reliable info.)
I heard they apparently had really good farming methods, so that's less starvation than what this thread is making me think ancient China had.
http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-farming.html
(edit 2):
It just occured to me. The Aztecs (and the ones they inherited the technique from) basically did the opposite of most other farming methods in the world.
Farmers in Europe, Asia, etc:
"I'll bring the water to the fields"
Aztecs, living on a lake:
"I'll bring the fields to the water!"
lol
edit:
I found these:
https://www.history.com/news/did-the-aztecs-really-practice-human-sacrifice
https://www.archaeology.org/news/4096-160125-aztecs-tenochtitlan-human-sacrifices
So both citizens and non-aztecs were sacrificed, but for citizens it seems it would have been done voluntarily. So being a citizen definitely seems safer.
I heard they apparently had really good farming methods, so that's less starvation than what this thread is making me think ancient China had.
http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-farming.html
(edit 2):
It just occured to me. The Aztecs (and the ones they inherited the technique from) basically did the opposite of most other farming methods in the world.
Farmers in Europe, Asia, etc:
"I'll bring the water to the fields"
Aztecs, living on a lake:
"I'll bring the fields to the water!"
lol
edit:
I found these:
https://www.history.com/news/did-the-aztecs-really-practice-human-sacrifice
https://www.archaeology.org/news/4096-160125-aztecs-tenochtitlan-human-sacrifices
So both citizens and non-aztecs were sacrificed, but for citizens it seems it would have been done voluntarily. So being a citizen definitely seems safer.
- #17
There were many times in Ancient China that a lack of food for the peasantry was caused by the corruption of several officials as they attempted to squeeze as much they could from them.
Furthermore, banditry wasn't as uncommon as you would think, as starvation left the peasantry and other groups with no other options than to commit crimes to survive.
And people did sell their children to live, some even committed cannibalism to survive as a result of those officials actions. If that isn't going overboard, i don't know what is. And what face did the officials have to lose by squeezing the peasantry dry and buying lavish goods for others to see? Dynastic Chinese bureaucracy enabled large scale corruption. And often the eunuchs of the emperor provided protection for corrupt officials.
Furthermore, banditry wasn't as uncommon as you would think, as starvation left the peasantry and other groups with no other options than to commit crimes to survive.
And people did sell their children to live, some even committed cannibalism to survive as a result of those officials actions. If that isn't going overboard, i don't know what is. And what face did the officials have to lose by squeezing the peasantry dry and buying lavish goods for others to see? Dynastic Chinese bureaucracy enabled large scale corruption. And often the eunuchs of the emperor provided protection for corrupt officials.